2023...Keep this band Together

The War Room Detroit Lions — The Den
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West…I don 't believe Holmes or Campbell place a high priority on LBers or CBs. I think Holmes values OL and DL play as well as safeties and WRs. I believe the Lions LOVE Jerry Jacobs and I don’t blame them. This kid is tough as nails. Jerry is 26 in September. BUT…I also don’t think drafting a CB in the 1st or 2nd round is bringing back the same group overall. AO is likely gone. Will Harris is likely gone. We will likely draft a CB high. Okudah is a viable starter. Jacobs will show us what he can do in the remaining six games. Hughes to me is proving that he can play an important role here. Chase Lucas is a viable #5 CB. One CB represents a 20% turnover in a position group. I also think the Lions COULD draft another CB but that will be later in the draft.

I think the Lions LOVE Rodrigo and Barnes. I love me high profile LBers but I don’t think the Lions see it that way.

I believe the Lions feel like OL and DLs win games period. Brad’s drafts and re-signings also reflect this belief. Hutch and Sewell were 1st rd. picks. Paschal and Levi are 2nd rd. picks and Alim was a high 3rd rd. pick. Ragnow never sniffed free agency. I expect Jonah Jackson will never sniff free agency either.

If Carter is there high in rd. 1 I think Brad makes that pick and never thinks twice. Past that every position might get selected high by Brad. But I think Brad will pick defense with his own 1st rd. pick. In fact I think Brad adds three defensive players with his first 3 picks ib 2023.

I believe the Lions think their offensive core is really close. They have work to do on defense and this draft offers a LOT of defensive talent.

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And we have the 32nd ranked defense. Hopefully they learn from their mistakes.

Does the DC keep his job with the 32nd ranked defense? Do we stay with the same 4-2-5.

We’ve invested a LOT of draft capital in OL, DL & WR. I expect them to go CB & LB this draft because it makes sense. I expect at least one of our 1st round picks to be a CB.

I get that everyone loves Rodrigo but he’s a 2 down 4-3 MLB and we play a 4-2. He doesn’t have the speed to go side line to side line until the ball is 5+ yards down the field. I have ZERO use for Analzone. Running a 4-2 means you need fast LB’s as they have a LOT of space to cover. Give me 6’2"+ fast LB’s to run a 4-2.

A 4-2-5 also means you need a LOT of DB’s. I don’t think any of our CB’s are anything more than “average to below average”. That’s why teams throw at will against us (and have for some time). We get excited because they are “our guys” but those outside the league think of them subpar.

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Good points West. We are not going to know anything until next April.

While we do have a poorly ranked defense (and hell yes they stunk up the field in six games this season) the Lions are showing showing signs of life on defense too. I believe Aaron Glenn is getting these players to buy into what they are trying to do. I see progress.

As a fan it is easy (and sometimes right) to want elite talent at position X. But that isn’t always right or accurate. This ball club IS coming together despite being crazy young on defense. Think about this: we have ONE veteran player playing a significant role on defense and that is the guy most (including me) want to replace (Alex Anzalone). Elliott doesn’t count as he wasn’t’ a starter before he came here overall. Tracy Walker has been injured so he doesn’t count either.

You give this club a healthy Paschal, Romeo Okwara, a better option than Levi at DT (I think Carter) to combine with our other players and I think the Lions believe they have a lot of the pieces they need to take the next step.

CB IS an issue. Will Harris and AO are problems. Let them walk as they are not part of the defensive core going forward. But Okudah and Jerry Jacobs are part of the future. Add in a top rookie CB as well as a re-signed Hughes and that could be solid. Add a talented safety and this club is in business as they can really change up looks including giving some three safety looks.

I don’t think this defense is far from becoming a pretty good side of the football. Keep what we need to keep (Elliott, Cominsky, Hughes for my $) and then give this defense 4 top rookies and I think that side of the football is in solid shape. Spend $ on offense and spend draft capital on defense.

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Probably before then.

If Detroit’s defense continues to play a bit better and we string some more wins together I think AG returns and we keep our defense and just add pieces.

If we lose out and our D stinks, AG could be looking for a job and our entire defensive scheme gets tossed out.

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This ^^^^ ALL. DAY. The guy is terrible. And that’s WHEN he plays.

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I disagree with Chark and Charles Harris, I wouldn’t pay either. Chark is not what we hoped, let’s move on and maybe find a guy that can contribute.
I kind of feel like Chark is Kenny Golladay-ing us anyways.
WatchfulJubilantIcefish-max-1mb

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Problem is… none of those players are healthy. Romeo is prolly gonna be a cut next year after he does nothing this season. I don’t put any stock into players returning from injury.

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There is a lot of good stuff in this thread. I thought it worthy of re-visiting.

I strongly believe the Lions don’t need to sign ANY outside free agents in 2023 at this point. Energy and resources need to be spent on keeping this team together while adding talent through the draft.

When we look at our own free agent decisions I think it wise to remember a larger look at position groups in terms of dollars spent. For example Romeo Okwara and Charles Harris are guys overpaid at this point. But dang, combined our edge rushers are cheap overall. Hutch, Paschal (whatever he really is!), Houston and Juliana Okwara are all on rookie deals. The one guy destined to be cut is Brockers as he isn’t even dressing on game days.

Chark is showing us what he can do when healthy. Re-signing Chark now locks him down, Amon Ra has two more years left on his del (re-sign him after 2023), Jameson Williams is on a rookie deal and Reynolds is already signed for 2023. Heck. even Kalif Raymond is already signed for 2023. We ain’t spending much at WR overall even with a re-signed Chark in mind in terms of what teams spend on WRs.

At safty if we re-sign Elliott (I see this as a critical re-signing) we have Tracy Walker and Elliott signed as veterans and that IS expensive likely. But I don’t see Walker on a list og tp ten paid safeties either meaning we are not paying crazy dollars combined to these guys even of we re-sign Elliott. They will likely be paid like solid veterans but they are not setting new standards at the position either. We can afford that because:

We ain’t paying shit to CBs. Pick up Okudah’s2024 option and past that this is a crazy inexpensive group/ Jacobs is on a rookie deal. Even if we re-sign Will Harris and Chris Hughes these are lowish dollar veteran signings. Drafting a top CB in 2023 will position this group for success for years and years///just like WR.

The OL is in GREAT shape is we lock down Jonah Jackson early (not a FA until after 2023) but locking him down now sends an important message to the team: play well and we reward you. We also need to lock down Evan Brown as critical depth. That IS an expensive OL with three veterans highly paid. Vaitai is an after thought either way. Likely force a pay cut as his options are limited anyway.

The Lions can afford an expensive OL as they are paying RBs almost nothing even if we re-sign Jamaal Williams. Swift is on a rookie deal (and should NOT be re-signed yet). All other RBs are inexpensive which is smart. Pay your OL and under pay at RB. Smart.

The one guy who gives me pause is Alex Anzalone. We have Rodrigo and Barnes settling into a groove. Alex is the leader of this group BUT…we are limited past that. YES…the draft can help there but a cheapish Alex Anzalone in competition with Rodrigo, Barnes and a maybe 3rd rd. rookie seems smart. BUT. $ can also be saved there.

Thanks to trading Hocl the Lions have 5 picks in the top 80ish of this draft )depending on where our 3rd rd. pick falls) which is starting to look like a very, very good draft. If Holmes can add top rookie talent at DT, CB, safety and LBer as well as one other luxury pick based on talent (sleeper…RB?) this roster starts to look deeper, affordable and tougher.

All without signing one key outside guy.

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Williams may or may not take a pay cut. He seems like a team.1st person, so he may take a friendly contract.

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Jamaal Williams is a smart guy. He and his agent will know the story. He is 28 in April and he is a solid veteran RB. He can do it all. But he isn’t a game breaker and he knows it. He is a great locker room guy and a solid performer. He has a shot at being a 1,000+ yard rusher in 2022 for the first time in his career. That is easier now with 17 games. In 2022 he has surpassed ALL his TDs combined this season alone with his 14 2022 TDs.

He deserves a pay raise. A three year deal (really a two year deal likely) makes a LOT of sense for him AND for the Lions. He can play and we should not play games with him. BUT…he also isn’t Dalvin Cook. Dalvin is in the process of having his 4th consecutive likely 1.100+ rushing yards season and Dalvin has 46 career rushing TDs so far. Dalvin is the same age as Jamaal Williams. Dalvin also has hundreds of career receiving yards too.

Jamaal knows he is a team leader and likely ANY team will put him in a committee. He knows his situation. He got a shot here, he surpassed his contract and he deserves a pay raise. He will likely be a $6-8 million/year guy now when he was a $4 million/season guy in 2022. I think he signs a 2/3 year deal worth between $6-8 million/season for 2 or three years and we get a solid veteran leader who can do it all, who gets the yards as blocked and can score TDs in the Red Zone. I’ll take that. BUT…he isn’t as talented as RB Swift either BUT he stays healthy and that makes him a guy we need to re-sign even if that means Swift is gone after 2023 (we liely draft Swift’s replacement in 2023).

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I don’t get the fascination w Noah Sewell. He ain’t it from everything I’ve read or heard or people I’ve talked to. But look at someone like Miller from Florida. That is someone the lions scouts LOVE. Jonah Jackson has been the best offensive lineman on a damn good line this year. He is here through 2023 but talking about extending him should happen. I’d love to see the lions grab some big time FA’s but really don’t expect it and expect more of a savy vet or two……it’s jalen carter or bust for em. I’ve listened to too many people say it’s him and then everyone else. Doug farrar is one of those people. That’s not a dig on will Anderson. I’ve heard those same people expect Anderson to be RDpoy to be a 5x all pro etc……but carter is that much better. Think we have a great young core and need to keep adding and this offseason is huge for that….SOL is dead. But I’ve heard a few different places lions fans need to learn how to win and trust….the Vikings game is that…actually believing the lions gonna keep getting better. That this regime is the regime. It’s no longer a question of MCDC being able to coach. He can and he is the perfect person for this….lions are gonna win Sunday and it’s gonna be amazing. With our 15 or what have you pick….I’d love Joey porter jr….the only qb I’m even considering is AR15. If the lions take him I’m pumped and excited to see what he does in 2024. If we don’t take him I’m pumped bc they got a hell of a defensive piece. Why I like AR15, he can make plays when your offense is schedule. Go lions

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I’m going to hard pass on any sub 6’0" LB.

I’m looking for 6’2"+ athletic LB that can cover a lot of space as well as cover NFL TE’s and RB’s. We’ve got the slow/short/thumper LB position already covered with Rodrigo.

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This is true, and I hope you’re right about the last couple of things.

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I don’t have any idea what the Lions will do at LBer but I don’t think the Lions place a crazy high priority on the position. Not like they do at OL, DL or safety. I do think another young LBer makes a lot of sense.

I believe the Lions think a great OL and DL is the ticket to win big. I also think the Lions believe WRs and the secondary are important too.

With 5 top 80 or so picks IF one takes QB off the board for the Lions (which I have done myself) it sure as hell looks like there is a lot of secondary options in this draft In terms of the Rams pick I think the Lions might be in line to get DT Carter OR a top CB depending on where that pick falls. I would be fine with that. With the Lions own 1st rd. pick anything is an option. DT Bryan Bresee or Gervon Dexter Sr. might be in play if we cannot get Carter early. Past that everything is on the table.

I expect those 5 picks to solidify this core as it stands now.

I think Anzalone might be the toughest call of them all.

This is going to be fun to watch.

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He is 6 ft and take it up w the lions if you don’t like it……or go get a job scouting for the lions and pound the table for your guy.

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Def agree brother. Been saying for a year that they value DL force……corner and safety……of the positions on defense they HOPE to get buy and take fliers on 4th and 5th round guys and hope they find a diamond (Barnes and Rodrigo). I’d love nothing more then a stud MLB……

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The only thing with that is now you are paying a lot of money to both guards. I got a feeling they will only pay one and draft a young kid in round 3 or so. Sewell is going to need a huge contract in a couple years as well. Ragnow and Decker are already making serious bank. I don’t think Holmes will paying big $$ to all 5 spots. Right now we have Jonah and Sewell on rookie deals which is helpful, but not for long

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Right on 57.

Teams have to prioritize how they want to spend $ when cap space is limited. For example the Saints spend crazy $ on guards.

Holmes appears to NOT prioritize LBer. He is also saving $ on WR now with only Chark making good $ there. Holmes is also NOT spending $ on the DL outside Brockers. We ALL expect Brockers to be cut.

We don’t have a vet on defense making high dollars. I guess Romeo Okwara and Tracy Walker come the closest. That is interesting right there.

My guess is Anzalone will be allowed to walk. I don’t thin Jamaal Williams will be allowed to walk at this point but I don’t think Swift has a shot at a second contract here. That is why I think RB is a real wild card this draft meaning Swift MIGHt be in a position to be traded.

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I know everybody is worried about keeping our own, but we are in good shape with the cap right now. We don’t have one bad contract on this roster that we are stuck with. A lot of teams have resorted to pushing 40mil+ into future cap years where we have very little pushed into future years. We currently have a little over 5mil of dead cap space in 2024 when the cap is expected to be close to 260mil.

Starting in 2023 is our window. Who knows how long that window will be open. I’m not saying mortgage the future, but I’d be disappointed if we didn’t sign a couple impact FAs. That doesn’t mean top of the market players, but it does mean plug and play starters. The #1 thing I want out of free agency is a veteran CB.

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Is Brockers still on the team!? haha

Which really sucks because they both have combined to play a total of 2.5 games this year. All the money being spent on defense, we are getting nothing out of. Brockers is a huge part of that equation as well. I think those 3 guys make more money than the entire rest of the defense combined. crazy

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