Below average starters

Going to ask who you guys think are Detroit Lion starters below league average.
League avg is defined two ways I guess, nominally league avg would be 16-17 rated at their positions, some positions have two players like offensive guard and would double the numbers, so 32-33. I would prefer to place them in three groups 1-11, 12-21 and 22-32. That would give them some range for players of similar abilities not to be downgraded simply by numbers.
Position by position, my opinion
QB- no
RB- no
WR- 3 no
TE- yes
OT- 1 no, 1 yes
OG- 2 yes
OC- no
On offense that is four players below avg., not counting below avg. depth…TE, OT, two guards.
Ostensibly, we have addressed that TE group with James and Hockenson, no matter how we feel about it as fans, the Lions have committed resources to that position.
The OT has been addressed with Quinn taking a big flyer on VaiTai. Big risk and a hole with Decker going forward next year. This year that hole has been addressed with VaiTai but essentially his status is below average until proven otherwise.
OG. Dahl was our best and we let a guy go most fans felt was adequate. I feel both are below but I would understand a differing opinion.

DE- 1 no, 1 yes
DT- 1 no, 1 yes
LB- 1 no, 2 yes
CB- 2 no, 1 yes
Safety- 2 no, 1yes

DE- opposite Flowers was less than adequate.
DT- The rotation was upgraded by returns from injury and a FA, were missing a proven rotational piece
LB- what can I say about Tavai and Davis. Collins is solid
CB- Trufant and Coleman are suitable, Omenawariye, who knows
Safety- I am okay with the group but at least one of them lacks starting ability.

On defense, we are six short. That falls squarely at Quinn’s feet.
Undin is short handed. He needs edge players, LBers and one each at corner and safety.

The numbers were adjusted for varying player groups. That’s why you have three corners and three safeties. I left names out, so as not to argue about the players.

I just can’t see the team viably competing with that many holes.

Disagree on RB but overall a solid assessment of the team.

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All good but there isn’t 13 “starters” (I see the mention of adjusted numbers for player groups but 7 of 11 as average or above is not requiring a six player swing) it is okay to have some below average rotational pieces if they are only playing in sub-packages. With the draft and still a second wave of free agency plus internal development… anything is possible but yes there is still significant work to be done.

Agree with WCLF. RB is below average IMO. Good write up though.

I shutter to think, if we did an evaluation of Posters, what that result would engender…IMO, the Den is loaded with “Senior Veterans”, who are excellent content providers, provide sound reasoning, and are devoid of character assassination. Other “Veterans”, one-step below, have long-term untradeable, unbreakable contracts, who write many opinions, full of verse, signifying nothing, have conviction, but can be mean spirited sometimes, needlessly, and they don’t care. They know they aren’t going anywhere. lol

The Den has several “Rookies”, less than 5 years for argument sake, full of enthusiasm, like to joke around, mean well, make plays sometimes, but lack historical Lion history to buttress their reasoning and provide marginal contribution or context and either piggy-back the original poster and/or take the subject matter in a completely different direction, as suits their taste. Lastly, the Den has several Free Agents, who pop up from time to time, especially around Draft Time, to offer their own opinions with occasional valuable information. Of course, Nate is our Coach/GM !!!

Just having FUN…Observant




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On offense:

TE- Hockenson has proven nothing. James is a bust of a signing.

OL- Below average at every spot except center.
RB- the Lions have one NFL caliber back, and he’s always hurt. So he’s not even really an NFL caliber back.
Defense: Lets list the Lions players that are are not below average starters: Flowers, Trufant, Collins, Walker. Every other spot is below average including NB Justin Coleman who has been another terrible signing. Davis and Tavai are both garbage.

I’m going to do this by position group.

OL - I think we have a below Avg OL as a whole.
RB - Below average - We need one more quality RB.
WR - Above Avg but aging. Needs some youth.
QB - Above avg but injury prone.
TE - Play is below average. Talent is above avg.

DL - Below average
LB - With the recent additions. I think it can be avg.
CB - I think this will be a strength post draft.
S - I’m in the minority here but I think we’re below average at safety. I believe that BQ/MP think this as well. That is why safety has been a priority for them.

I am not going to waste my time with you since it will make no difference. I will state a couple where your wrong Tavai you are judging him based on your disagreement with the pick an rd. That is not fair objective way of dealing with players. But then who ever said you were fair an objective in your points of view. Davis i feel has been a disappointment but not based on one season. The Coleman is solid slot an he proved it even when the rest of D sucked with no pressure even Slay who most liked sucked.

We all know how you feel about Tavai an if he leads league in tackles you will just make up some twisted way to bad mouth him its what you do when Lions staff doesn’t do what you think. If they had listened to you we would have had a Broken down WR x Cowboy who was signed an then broke down again for New Orleans You blamed Quinn for not signing him Dez Bryant an i could list many many more of what would have turned out to be very bad buys.

Just saying even the posters screw up an they don’t have to answer to the fans who think they are always right :smiley:

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You forgot the ones that deserve they’re own special category

Just one point I think has some merit
When Stafford was playing, I think, even last year, this was +/- a 8-8 team
So … average
To really make this analysis meaningful you have to assess how many “below average” guys are on league rosters
Every team has below average guys starting (by default)
No idea what the demarcation line is, but the Lions roster is probably close to the definition of average

I’d say we are what our record says we are.

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Sounds good but assuming Stafford plays 16 games, this is a +/- 8 win team

Tavi the guy is to slow to ever be a decent starter, it showed on the field he can’t cover anyone and is and will always be a liability. Below avg is kind.

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Vegas has it as 6 1/2. I think 8 is the absolute ceiling as we stand now.

QB, LT, LG, C, WR2, WR3, TE are average+.
RG, RT, RB, WR1 are below average.

RDE, LDT, WLB, MLB, CB2, NB, S1, S2 are average+.
RDT, LDE/OLB, CB1are below average.
The above assumes we are in a 4 man front with Tavai and Collins as the off the ball linebackers.

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You think Trufant is below average?
You think Golladay is below average?
I think you might want to amend that.

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Assumptions mean nothing.

Assuming we draft 3 all pros this team is a contender. Doesn’t mean it’s gonna happen until it does.

We are what our record says we are until we prove otherwise.

It’s hard to nail down the WR and CB groups because we’re not going to be 100% in lock-step with who’s 1, 2 or 3.

Of the top 3 WR’s, Jones, Golladay and Amendola… I’m saying Golladay as a 2 and Amendola as a slot are average+. Jones as a 1 is below average. I think a lot of us realize (discussed) that both Golladay and Jones are good #2 receivers. Regardless of which one you want to put in the #1 spot, yes, they’ll be hovering the lower end of average.

Same thing happens at CB. Trufant as a 2 and Coleman in the slot are good defenders. O is developmental. If you want to put Trufant as a 1 and O as a 2, then you might say we’re below average on both accounts.

As I look at the team, I’m saying add a WR1 and CB1 to the roster and you’re in good shape with those 2 groups.

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Golladay led the NFL in TD’s, that is an average # 2. That’s nuts. That is our avg number 1.
Jones is better than avg. number 2.
And, while I could ask for a better 3, Amendola is an average 3. He might be below for some but he brings more than his game.

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