Crazy Draft Hypothetical…… What if?

The War Room Detroit Lions — The Den
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Den,

We’ve been on a rollercoaster the last 2 years rooting for and against Stafford/Rams in 21’, and a united front against them in 22’ (since Matt has his ring).

The Rams bumped into a pair of unlikely wins after Baker was plucked off the scrap heap, but what does it mean?

I only ask because because I just did a simulator on PFN, PFF, and NFL Mock Draft Database sites…. and this happened……

  1. Jalen Carter was available on all 3 at #6
  2. Bryce Young was available on 1 of the 3….

So I passed on both every time….

Carter went 7, 7, and 9

Young went #1 on PFF, but they have us at #4? Otherwise he went #5 to colts on PFN and #14 on NFL Mock Draft Database.

  • what if we do draft #6 and both are there?

Do we ask why? Do we see it as a blessing and draft one? Which one?

Guys like Myles Murphy, Ringo, Q Johnston, T Wilson all went before one of both of them in at least 1-2 drafts.

What if that happens? Do we question Carters motor, his lack of production… enough to pass if 2-3 other teams take defensive players ahead of him?

What if 1-2 QBs go ahead of Bryce…. Do we believe the scouts of other QB needy teams passing on Bryce, or does it feel like a gift?

I only ask because I do think 1 or both with be there.

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If Young is there man the phones and expect a big trade offer.

If Carter is there, draft him

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Not sure I agree…. My point is what if most teams have Young way down the boards due to size? What if lack of motor and conditioning with Carter is a Fairley like concern?

Nobody expected he nor Haskins to fall like that. Hell many thought Mac Jones was going #3 to SF…

If 2 QBs go, and neither are Young…I’m not sure the phones will ring…

We could see Murphy and T Wilson ride like T Walker, and Ringo and Porter/Gonzalez ride like Sauce and Stingley. Hell I could see Q Johnston going too 3-4 if he runs 4.39. We already know he has a 42” vertical in him.

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I think you have to trust Holmes to do his research on Carter and determine if he is the next Fairley. My initial reaction is to run up to the podium for Carter but I don’t get the same info that Holmes does.

Only reason I care about Young falling is what trade offers we might get.

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If Carter is there, I see a Sewell/Hutchinson scenario.
Don’t ask questions, just jump.

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I only ask because last year in December… getting Thibz, M Willis, and N Dean would have been the haul, of hauls….

Now I wouldn’t trade Hutch for all 3…, then either!

I was more wondering if 2-3 of these “elite” guys are t even on the radar of some top execs?

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Sewell who won the Outland as a freshmen… Hutch who led in sacks, made heisman panel and has almost a 10 RAS at combine…. We are comparing them to a 5 star who has 7 sacks in 3 years?

Calvin, Suh, P Peterson, AP sure… I’ve visited other teams forums looking for the Carter love…. I don’t see it. I think if we had Payne or Hargrave we wouldn’t even be talking about him. Yet we can just sign either.

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The Texans and Colts need QB’s, desperately.
Arizona would be smart to at least consider one.
That leaves the Bears And Sea Hags, who will probably go defense.
Gee, I don’t know, do you you take the the third best defensive prospect? Even if he’s the fourth best?
You don’t ask questions. You jump.

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It’s a whole different scenario, Sewell and Hutchinson had good production and are known as hard works with very little to question.

Carter has that great ability but has a lot of questions. His lack of production could very well have to do with his work ethic and attitude. Very different situations.

But I would probably take that gamble just because of the lack of top talent in this draft. Picking top 7 just seems like a bad place to be if your not looking for a QB or Olineman.

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Here is something to think about also if a kid has a so so work ethic but a high ceiling.Is this a locker room with guys like St Brown and Hutch where a young man can mature,work through those issues and reach his potential.I feel this was a big problem in the past but not with this group of players and coaches.

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7 is a solid spot in this draft for a cb

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I agree.

There is where I stand. There are too few examples of his dominance to assume it’s a real possibility, and not just a possibility.

81 tackles….18.5 TFL and… 6 sacks and 2 FFs….

  • that is a career with 32 games…

I’m struggling to find any remotely “dominant” NFL DT who was so “quiet” in college….

He’s 6’3” and 310 so he does have good size, but we’ve yet to see if he has elite athletic traits.

If he runs a sub 4.8… has a 1.67 10 yd, a 34” vertical and puts up 32 plus reps…. Then it can be argued that he is a freak, and maybe a combo of scheme or motor limited his college production.

That said… if he has that combine I think he goes top 3-4 and it’s moot.

But what if he tests … average- Derrick Brown ish- and has paltry stats?

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I saw a mock that had Levis and AR up top, and the Lions passed on Bryce Young and Stroud in favor of Ringo, I think? And while I don’t believe that will happen, I just talked to Travon, and he assured me it could.

And you have to take Bryce there, if it did. Because when he hits the ground running in the nfl, as he has at alabama and mater dei before it, he will join the likes of Mahomes and Allen and burrow… an elite quarterback in the league. As well as Goff has played, it won’t matter. Whatever player you could’ve drafted… Goff still has that kind of value in trade.

Our current offense hides Goff’s weaknesses, but you have to assume some level of flux over time. We may not always have stellar line play. Every team knows you have to get goff off his spot. And once you do, the difference in Goff’s game and Bryce Young’s game is staggering.

There isn’t much room for improvement on his best days, but against new England? When the opponents can cover our guys and the pass rush is effective? We get blanked. Because Ben Johnson is the offense creator, and goff can take what’s there at a high level. Bryce is an offense creator. You can cover the guys and get home with the pass rush, and still get beat. Regularly. This offense has room to grow with a creator.

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Not sure I understand the idea of drafting a guy that can scramble when protection breaks down but doesn’t have the passing ability of Goff. And you can’t convince me that either Stroud or Young has the passing ability of Goff.

We see in Fields what happens when you draft a guy that can’t throw effectively and relies too much on his running ability: only twice as many passing yards as rushing yards and 17 TDs with 11 interceptions. Has passed for over 200 yards twice in 15 games.

This team has waaay too many holes on defense to hope a QB drafted in the first round works out.

If you draft a QB because you believe he has the passing ability to be great, then go for it. But if you draft a QB for the purpose of having a guy that can run around and make plays only when pass protection breaks down….big mistake IMHO.

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We have also been guard or two away from stellar line play. Our pass protect win rate is 14th and Goff has been pressured 10th most

Against NE if I recall Amon Ra was hobbled, no Chark no Swift and the Oline was terrible. offensive line let up 15 pressures on 36 dropbacks. Evan Brown replaced Stenberg at right guard for the second half after Stenberg was a turnstyle the first half. Sewell and Decker each let up a sack and three hurries.Raggs allowed four hurries.

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Sorry but this is the laziest take I’ve read in a while…

I encourage you to look at …

Josh Allen in week 8, 9 and 10 against Green Bay, Minny and the Jets… 3 fumbles, 6 interceptions, and 5 TDs (1 pass, 2 rush)… How about 75…46…78 ratings in 3 straight games… Hell he’s been under 87 rating in 6 of his last 9 games???

Justin Herbert has been under 87 ratings in 6 of his last 11… His week 15 and 16 where he threw ZERO TDs and had 3 INTS and 1 fumble against Indy and the reeling Titans… he had 68 and 84 ratings in those back to back games against shitty opponents…

  • Jared Goff has been under 87 rating in just 2 of his last 10… Hell only 6 times in 16 games… I would agree that his 62 and 71 ratings against NE and Dallas were pretty bad… I would also say if you take those 2 games off the table… Goff would have 29 TDs and 4 ints and 1 lost fumble the other 14 games!!!

You guys all know how I feel about Mahomes, and I’m starting feel that same way about Burrow… The rest of the guys are beatable by Goff and the Lions…

We can pretend the Josh Allen is head and shoulders over Goff, but our guy has a better rating, completion percentage, TD/INT ratio, and he’s neck and neck in yards… When you consider a last minute FG separated the 2 this year, and one came in with a dead last defense, and the other the #2 D in the league (at the time)… I would say J Goff is helping the Lions catch up to the other good teams really quick…

Real question… If pocket passers who have good OLs and good Defenses win lots of SBs… like Brady, Manning, P Manning, Big Ben, Matt Stafford, Drew Brees, why not follow that trend and simply keep having a good team around a solid QB… vs trying to catch lightning in a bottle?

Mahomes is a rare… rare… talent-

If you think a 28 year old QB with a 4-1 TD/INT ratio whose teammates love him, and who had a 100 plus rating for the 3rd time in his career is part of the problem… I can’t help you-

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Allen also has the best WR in football in Diggs

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Stroud’s comp might literally be Jared Goff, which is exactly why we don’t need to take Stroud because we already have him.

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Goff isn’t part of any problem. His play is excellent and I really like him as a player. There IS a whole dimension to the position that doesn’t really exist in his game, and therefore an unlocked dimension to our offense that nobody has seen. That’s all I’m saying, and that’s not difficult to understand, or really debatable.

Goff’s most elite traits are accuracy and decision making. Both young and Stroud have elite accuracy, and young is a super elite processor, with elite improvisational ability. It’s hardly a stretch to suggest either could approximately replicate goff in the pocket. I’m not here to bash goff. Outside of that missing element, he’s playing near peak. Goff isn’t physically capable of replicating the best aspects of Bryce Young’s game. That’s plain as day.

I’m not sure what to do with a Fields comparison. That’s nonsense. Couldn’t be more different players.

The actual reason most ppl don’t want to try to improve the qb position is fear of failure. I can’t get down with fear based decision making. It’s far too limiting. It caps possible growth.

Edit: I can’t say for certain what young would do in our offense, but I’m quite certain of you put goff on '22 Bama, they have more losses. Goff can’t play that style of game behind that offensive line.

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I can’t speak for most people but the reason I don’t want to try and improve the QB position, especially with top draft capital is because Goff is balling out leading a top five offense and the defense is still in desperate need of talent

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