That could just be coaches speak too.
The Lions value consistency and I’m sure Skip offers more consistency.
But Manu is an upgrade in the run game. I personally think we gain more putting Manu in over Skip. Not to mention Manu has long term upside.
I’d just scheme him some help on passing plays.. You don’t have to every snap but do it often enough that the opponent is not sure if it’s coming or not.
It has turned into a long thread and maybe you are just joining.
I don’t feel Dan and Frank are wrong. They play the best players.
Manu was the best available against Cincy.
Just to recap:
My posts stem from many who want to play Manu, even if he isn’t the best available, so he can get reps to improve.
This is exactly what I said.
This is also what I said. But he has consistently played ahead of Manu when healthy.
Now that he is back practicing and Cochran has been in the system for a few weeks now Dan has indicated they will be considered for this weeks game.
I agree with this and may the best player start.
Others want Manu because he has a better upside.
He may very well have better upside than Skipper which isn’t setting the bar that high if we are being honest. But I don’t know.
Dan just witnessed a bad game. He doesn’t speak of immediately replacing players after a bad game often. He didn’t talk of going to other options after the Green Bay game for Ratledge.
Dan spoke about Skip as if Skip would have been the option if not injured. We know Dan values and trusts Skip.
There is that upside thing again.
You can’t coach on upside. Brad can keep Manu on the roster because of his upside, but the coach has to put the best players on the field from week to week.
If Manu is the best player he should start (if Decker is unavailable).
But if Skipper or Cochran are better then they should start.
Just because a player is big, strong, and fast doesn’t mean he will ever be a great or even good player.
Manu has done nothing to get any special privilege over any other player.
Iffy, BroMart, Hooker, …, all had upside that was never realized.
Hopefully Manu will reach his. But he has to earn it.
I just wanted to say that I’ve followed your take through this entire thread (and others) and I agree with you 100%.
[quote=“MittenSportsFan, post:84, topic:44967, full:true”]
Dan just witnessed a bad game. He doesn’t speak of immediately replacing players after a bad game often. He didn’t talk of going to other options after the Green Bay game for Ratledge.
Was Dan freely offering that up to start his press conference or was his response to a specific question regarding Skipper’s availability for the next game up.
The two are different scenarios.
BroMart and Hooker never showed anything on the field. For a half a season Iffy may have been our best player on defense. There is a difference.
None of us are saying he doesn’t have to. I agree with your take that he was the best option and that’s why he played. However, I also think we’re a staff that 100% believes in development, and as they stated in that article I linked, you don’t develop without playing. So those two things have to be balanced.
Take Mahogany last year. Was he the safer play over the vet Awosike in his first game on the road against Chicago? After missing all of training camp and being inactive until week 11? I find that difficult to believe, especially from a communication standpoint. BUT he had the higher ceiling, we were playing a team we should beat, it was a good spot to blood him. And he, unlike Manu, was great. (In fairness, playing between Decker and Ragnow against a bad Chicago interior was a much easier ask).
I think the same thing can absolutely play out with Manu vs Skipper. Now if we had someone better than Skipper, probably not, but I don’t think the downgrade from Skipper to Manu is enough to hold back the latter’s development.
I just think you are making the argument to black and white. There’s more nuance to it.
I don’t think so either, and I believe Dan Campbell has the same exact mindset. Just as you stated, you earn your reps throughout the week in practice and when the decision is made it will be the “best available” that will be named the starter. Could be Skipper, could be Cochran, could be Manu. But rest assured Campbell will be starting the one that gives them the best chance to win to the game.
Mahogany was not the safer play but the better play. Reports were that he was killing it in practice. He was head and shoulders better than Awosika in practice and earned that start.
Mahogany was actually outperforming Glasgow at LG in practice and showed it in the game by being one of the highest rated O-Linemen in that game.
Mahogany actually earned consideration for another start and he was returned to the bench in favor of the trusted player.
Manu has always repped behind Skipper and then had a sub-par game.
If Decker is unavailable and Manu is the best player, he should start.
But not because he has a bigger upside.
The Lion culture is a Meritocracy. Shep showed that on Hard Knocks when he started the under-sized low draft pick at MLB because he earned it.
He showed it again when he didn’t start the 1st rd rookie LB.
Until this season DeMo started over 1st rd pick Gibbs.
Manu has shown nothing in camp, pre-season games, or in practice (assuming) to earn any special treatment that no one else has received.
If he is better than Skip and Cochran I have no problem with him being next in line behind Decker.
Dan was asked a question about Decker’s availability for KC.
The first thing he said is “We’ll see. We’ll look at everything. Skip is back”.
He freely brought Skip and Cochran into the equation without prompt.
All22 for Manu, felt appropriate to add here
Last comment from the analysis, “Manu probably learned more in that game going up against Hendrickson than he has in over a month of practice”. You can see on a few plays where the guy highlights how he was adjusting his technique to account for the ways that Hendrickson beat him earlier.
Again, I never once said the better man shouldn’t play.
My original response that you responded too was that it’s a balancing act, and it is. Just like the Mahogany vs Awosike decision was (because as you freely admit, Mahogany was not the safer play). Manu was the better play, and could very well be vs Skipper, though after last week I think they will probably lean heavily toward safer in KC.
But Skipper is not good. He got Goff killed even worse than Manu did in Houston last year. So it’s not as if better is a high bar.
