That is interacting with it. The algorithm learns that you’re interested in users’ opinions about the Lions.
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Yep. All it takes you clicking “See more comments…” once or whatever, and your algorithm is hit. What you see changes almost immediately and that thing you clicked on? Prepare to get a lot more of it. Social media sites aren’t making money by you scrolling past posts, so anytime you interact with anything, in the slightest way, it is tracked and thrown at you again. They want you clicking, reading, staying on their website. w
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Well jokes on them because I just got rid of it altogether 
I realize they don’t care and they still make a crapload of money.
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But actually it seems like that is what the Den Illuminati believe and will drag you if you feel differently.
I have a different take on this.
Many players from blue blood schools have middling careers. If you go look at mid-round picks from elite schools, it’s pretty ugly. Theoretically the experience should be good, but it just hasn’t played out that way. I think that is due to so much talent around them. LBs get to move more freely because of all the talent on the DL. Edges/DTs don’t get double-teamed. Corners don’t need help, and don’t have to hold up for as long, on and on. It’s a bunch of journeymen like Dashawn Hand and Malik Harrison. At best.
Obviously there’s still elite talent at those schools, but it tends to go early in the draft. And of course there are a few guys who hit from those schools in the mid-to-late rounds, but they’re basically outliers. And most come with a reason, like ARSB, Linsley and Grady Jarrett who were foolishly docked for their measureables despite early round tape.
Non-blue-blood players, on the flip side, while they have a lower floor and thus higher bust rate, also have higher ceilings. I also think it’s more difficult to stand out at those schools when surrounded by middling talent, so when they do it tends to mean something. So you get guys like Maxx Crosby, Puka Nacua, Tyreek Hill, Cooper Kupp, Trey Hendrickson, Fred Warner, Quinn Meinerz, Kobie Turner, Antonio Brown, Matt Milano, Tyler Lockett, Darren Waller, Joe Thuney, Kevin Byard, Javon Hargrave, Judon, Wyatt Teller, Zach Allen, Drew Dalman, DaRon Bland, Tariq Woolen, on and on.
Obviously, the vast majority are gonna miss, but only because the vast majority are gonna miss overall. Just go look at pick 65 on from, I don’t know, the 2010 draft. Or 2006 or whatever. Almost none hit. And of course in today’s climate, a lot of those guys might transfer to a bigger school (though not necessarily in the Big 10 or SEC, a ton are transferring to Miami or Big 12 schools).
I have always suspected that the non-elite players from blue blood schools get overdrafted and tend to be bad picks, but I’ve never done a true deep dive (except with Alabama, they have almost no hits on guys drafted after the 2nd, it’s uncanny).
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So who do we tell that 4 NT’s active on game day while your ONE 3t DT (Wingo) rides the pine does not help you whip anyones ass? Until the final game where he shockingly gets activated and immediately provides some interior disruption. Whoever’s philosophy this is, needs to change or be booted. Because even with all that beef conceding interior pass rush, we still couldn’t field a dominant run defense.
What worries me is that this is a BH philosophy in that he keeps stocking us with NT types and leaves us highly thin on 3t’s. Instead he farms those roles out to ho hum DE’s that have some size. Well, they end up being ho hum 3t’s too if they can get on the field (Paschal). Yes it would help a bunch to get a stud RDE. But I fear it won’t be the type of impact we would like as long as they have no interest in blowing up the middle of the Oline. Good QB’s will just step up, by themselves another beat and deliver the ball. Rinse, repeat.
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I mean, his first ever defensive pick was Levi, a pass-rushing 3T. I think we’re just talking about small sample size stuff here.
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I totally get what you are saying, however a lot of the guys you mentioned are guys who displayed some form of NFL skill. Hill’s speed, Cupp’s hands, etc. They displayed some trait that made a team say “yeah, that guy could play in the right system, right scenario, right fit”. I just don’t feel like that’s what the Lions did with both the Martin pick, and especially Manu. I am not trying to be critical or hyperbolic here, I am just stating facts with this.
For Manu, he does not come from a football background. He has NFL size, and that’s it. I get what the Lions were thinking. Take this guy with NFL size, but no background, and let’s see if we can use NFL coaching to teach him how to play NFL football. I get the idea, but it goes against their own drafting principals which Holmes said they would not do. Most of the guys you mentioned who maybe didn’t shine fully in college and blew up in the NFL, most of those guys were experienced football players. They knew how to play the game. For Manu’s sake, he not only has to learn how to play football, he has to learn how to play football against other people who have a lot more experience playing it.
I know it’s really easy to side street drive and to play the hindsight game. I’m not doing that here, I am saying I think Manu’s pick was a clear example that Holmes has deviated from his own original plan for the Lions. I do think this is a “high on their own supply” pick. I think they drafted him based on his physical size, and not his football acumen and pedigree. Manu being so late to start playing football, was always going to be behind the curve. Drafting him in the 4th round, when you should be getting regular contributors, was way to high. Manu is the kind of guy you look for as a UDFA. If you really just want measureables, how come more teams don’t scout guys coming out of the local fitness centers? It’s because they can’t play actual football. I think back to the Brock Lesnar/Vikings experiment. The guy is an absolute superhuman athlete. He left the WWE to join the Vikings, but was cut in preseason because even with all of the athleticism in the world, he can’t play football. At least that was just a free agent tryout.
I am good with and understand people make mistakes, and the NFL draft is a complete crapshoot in the best of times. I just think taking Manu, in the position that we did, was a needless risk. I think taking solid football players who could potentially grow into starters is a great move for rounds 4-6. I just don’t think Manu fits the category of solid football player, and so far that’s been proven to be the case.
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Well sure, that’s evaluation.
But I think you’re being harsh on Manu. His RAS alone is freakish NFL juice. So if you’re counting Hill’s speed, you gotta account for Manu’s athleticism as well. He’s an elite athlete for the position based on his testing, and as you say the size is great as well.
Martin I’ll give you, but NTs are different. Most of them are bad athletes, Snacks was one of the worst testers ever. And Martin’s length was freakish, and his motor was really excellent for a NT. He also kicked ass at the Shrine bowl against future pros. Maybe Brad shouldn’t put so much stock in all-star games, but I don’t blame him. Especially for small school guys. That’s why I loved Quinyon, Meinerz, Puka and Zabel, they all thrived at all-star games. Martin did too. It didn’t work out, c’est la vie. I didn’t hate the pick at the time at all. I didn’t love giving up picks, but that’s just the draft nerd in me.
I also think Brad felt it was a good time for a developmental OT. Decker still seemed to have a few years left (he just signed his contract), we didn’t have a lot of minutes to go around, etc… This is how good teams do it. It’s how the Eagles have been doing it for years.
But we got fisted by the football gods and injuries have really changed the shape of our roster. It sucks, but I was completely fine with the logic of the process. It ‘s disingenuous of me to get upset over the results. Process >>>>>> results.
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I don’t have a good answer for you. I presume that the theory was that it would help us dominate against the run. It didn’t of course.
Tyleik is an interesting case study bc I’m not so sure that he’s not best off remaking his body and becoming another Alim. In which case we need Lopez back and probably a late round NT.
I really agree on Manu.
In general, he is a great opportunity. I would say that he was truly over drafted. Many examples (not tons) of athletes who became NFL level players without having much previous football experience. Where I see the main issue is why draft him so high? Most of the other huge RASIC type dudes with no experience were low round or UDFA. The Lions and BH made a huge jump with Manu.
Once he was here it has been my position to try to grade him based on where he was coming from and not where he was drafted. The 2 things have nothing to do with the player or their performance. That is in BH not the player. You think Manu was a bad pick based on what he cost take that up with BH but I grade Manu on he progress not that the Lions drafted him so high. Again not the players fault.
Conversely Branch was a second rounder. And has been a valuable starter basically from the word go. Which honestly, I expected based on his performance in college nit by where he was drafted.
I agree with the posts stating that it appeared on some level that BH and MCDC thought they had a roster and just needed to maintain it. And they made a mistake. That they needed to keep looking to improve it and maybe dare I say take some risks to improve it.
Levi was a 0 technique at Washington. 16 TFL’s and 7 sacks in 3 seasons. 3t was a projection based on traits. Same with Alim big, stuff the run first DT with agility traits. Upfield penetrating DT’s who excel at 3t DT in college do not seem to be the program after a long enough track record to say that. They convert NT’s to start and convert big DE’s to sub in. Wingo, bench and they have been cross training him at 5t.
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I just read this and almost fell over…I immediately have visions of Deliverance and the sounds coming from Beaty…or Chevy Chase in Fletch
Yes, he played on some wonky fronts at Washington, but like you said, the whole of the world knew he was an NFL 3T, and that’s exactly why we drafted him. Projection or not. Which goes specifically against the idea that he doesn’t draft pressure guys from the inside. His very first defensive move here was to try and do that.
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Right, I don’t know that I’d call it a mistake necessarily. They went with a slightly higher risk tactic and the fact that it hasn’t hit yet in addition to our roster attrition has combined to really make it look like a bad call, but in the moment it wasn’t. Like I said, process over results. If he all of a sudden gets conservative because of it (which I don’t expect), that is allowing all sorts of fallacies to dictate his decision-making.
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It is a delicate balance.
Building and maintaining a roster is tough work.
And this is the reason that I think we should be trading down annually, and notching future picks. Players get injured. It’s part of the game. Have a shitload of picks so you can replace them.
As a draft nerd, I’m all for it. And there are a lot of studies that say no one is actually a good drafter and it’s best to maximize picks (I’m not sure I believe it though).
It does come with a down side though. The Packers, Niners, Vikings and Eagles have quite a few drafts over the past 5-6 years where they had a ton of picks and in the end very few made the team, while others have gone on to have good careers elsewhere. There’s only so many spots to go around.
I also believe conviction is the #1 trait a general manager can have, and I really don’t want to do anything to dampen Brad’s. It’s a superpower… sometimes. Other times it leads to mistakes. I think on balance I’d still rather have a GM like that than one who plays it safe. To me the latter never goes anywhere.
Personally, I’d balance it so that I can still take risks on projects like Manu or TeSlaa, but I wouldn’t give up draft capital to do it. That’s the compromise to me, but I don’t know that Brad will see it that way. And as I fully expect TeSlaa to hit big (we’re gonna easily have the best WR corps in the league the next 4-5 years), I think it will only embolden him.
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Honestly I agree on Tesla. Once the route running is nailed down, he could be an awesome player for us. I picture it when Saints contract is up.
I just wish Brad would trade down, notch future picks. And then take gambles.
I thought this was really good. He shared more than he usually does and seemed very humble. He took a lot of responsibility. You can feel his emotion. Thank goodness he said their philsophy isn’t changing with the type of players they bring in and how they want this team built. Good! I want this team filled with Sewell’s and Jack Campbell’s. AKA Dan Campbell guys.
I also agree. I think they stumbled, but they’re only a couple peices away from getting back on track.