Generational Talent... Scheme Fit... Draft Capital

The War Room Detroit Lions — The Den
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Den,

Those are 3 pre-draft phrases that have become pretty cliche’ over the past decade or so…

  1. Are there any clear “generational talents” in the draft? I would guess Sewell might be the closest thing. I don’t see a Julius Peppers, Sean Taylor, Calvin Johnson, John Ogden, Adrian Peterson type guy in this class. Micah Parsons for example has shorter arms, did less bench reps, had 4/5” lesser vertical and far less experience in a traditional off ball role thus requiring teams to “project him” in coverage vs having a lot of film.

  2. What is a scheme fit? In Quinn’s case it was moronic, as he let Patricia dictate the need for as many “un-athletic” players as possible. Whereas a more competent team might look player traits such as QB mobility to discern who might better execute the desired offense.

  3. Draft capital- AKA- MAGIC BEANS!!! Teams are throwing 2022 and 2023 first rounders out like bad produce these days. Draft picks might be lottery tickets, or magic beans, but they are also the foundation of good teams. The more draft picks that make your team, the more impact players you can afford to pay long term.

Think about this… guys like CJ Mosley, A Barr, A Hitchens, J Collins- we are talking about 80-100 tackle with 1-2 sacks and 0-1 interceptions a year guys making 9-12M a year!!! Off the ball lbers who make few impact plays making massive money.

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I don’t really see Sewell as a generational player. He’s a great prospect but the “generational” label gets thrown around too much for prospects these days.

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Agreed. Tyron Smith would spank his ass. Beast.

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My point?

I don’t see many generational talents, but boy do I see a dozen plus guys who would be amazing values to help build a roster with…

We could use our draft capital, and turn it into more magic beans from another team lying to themselves about the “generational talent” they are giving up significant resources for.

We need a RT, WR1, WR2, LB, DT and DB to really fill out our roster in a competitive manner.

Let’s say we can slide to down to #13 to SD, or #15 to New England. They could be chasing a top OT or the last QB. Call it their #13-15 in 1, their 2nd, and 2nd next year.

Consider that at #13-15 we are then likely in the range for a team wanting a top remaining CB…

I would trade down twice and try and add a 2nd and 3rd this year, and a 2nd and 3rd next year.

In the mid to early 20s there are a bunch of LTs who project as elite RTs, and the next batch of WRs.

  1. Liam Eichenberg/A Leatherwood
  2. E Moore/T Marshall
  3. Jamin Davis/Jarbril Cox
  4. D Nixon/J Tufele/C Sample
  5. N Collins/Dazz Newsome
  6. ** traded up to ensure E Moore or Marshall**
  7. T Slaton- NT

Would anyone argue we immediately get a 5 year starter at RT around #20 for 2M per year? Solidify our OL

What about E Moore who reminds me of T Hill a bit atop 2? Slot monster and weapon all over.

Then a coverage centric LB

Nixon likely won’t fall this far sadly, but maybe? Even C Sample could be a 3-4 sack interior rush guy.

My point is a guy like Cox or Davis would cost 6-9M per year in free agency- ala J Davis at 7M!!

If Glasgow can anchor RG and demand 11M, a guy like Eicheberg or Leatherwoos could man RG or RT at that level or more for 2M.

I feel like this draft gives us 3-4 upgraded starters, some real upside with a few, some depth, and 6-7 new players under crazy low contracts.

Instead of drafting guys like Sample of Tufele to rotate and get 3-4 sacks, they pay guys like N Williams 5-6M to achieve maybe that.

It’s also gives us 2 picks in rounds 1, 2, and 3 in 3 next year with the comp pick. That should be 7 more starters. When you have 10-11 guys under 23 playing at 700k to 2.5M per year, it’s easy to pay that too free agent 17M vs 15M etc.

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I agree too.

Devonta? Nobody in the history of the league has ever succeeded at his height/weight. He chose not to weigh, or run. Pass.

Slater? Awesome player. No doubt, but as a RT is he head and shoulders above Eicheberg or Leatherwood? I’d rather have Leatherwood, E Moore, and a FS or Edge vs just Slater…

Lance? He didn’t run, he didn’t play this year, he’s never played any real competitor.

I’m glad we don’t have to decipher the value to Lawrence or Wilson, as they surely won’t be there. I am not enamored by either though.

Parsons? His short arms and weak bench don’t align with a dominate monster freak athlete. He ran great at PSU, but with a year to train, how does a 250 pound man bench 225 just 19 times? I expected 25-30. That combined with minimal film of coverage makes him a blitz LB that only provides true value in a 3-4, but that would make
Okwara puzzling if that was our intended base D since he nor Flowers play standing up. They are both too light and short to be 5 techs as well.

Sewell, Fields, and J Chase are the 3 guys who have the height, weight speed measureables that could translate to a likely pro bowl caliber career. Chase measuring at his playing size was huge. See how much smaller Bateman is than he was listed at. Fields has some good film, great stats, and a test tube body/athletic score.

With tike to process all the options and watch tape and some pro days… those are the only 3 I see as guys who profile translates to being worth MORE than 2-3 solid cheaper starters…

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At this point I’ve heard the term “generational talent” so often that I figure if you miss out on one this year, just grab one next year. No biggie.

What’s interesting is how the terms seems to have evolved. There used to multiple terms people used to use for good players who also came with that little bit of “extra” whatever it was that made people put them at the top of the draft and think they would become pro bowl and all pro type players. You decide what your preferred term is. I called them blue chips. Then you had a lost term of player called “once in a decade” talent. This has all but been thrown away.

Then you have generational guys. How in the heck did this term start getting thrown around so easily?

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Great point! I don’t know.

What I do know is I think Fields and Sewell are likely the only 2 guys, and likely Chase I guess who could live up to the hype of the pick.

A Samuel Jr

Bateman

Z Collins

E Moore

Eichenberg

J Davis

W Davis

A Banks

N Harris

A Rodgers

D Nixon

C Barmore

I would bet 75% of these guys end up plus starters if put in the right places. Is Jamin Davis likely to be Bobby Wagner? No, but he could easily be what Collins was in his prime for 9M less per year. I think Samuel Jr could be the exact player we thought we were paying J Coleman 9M to be. I love Amari Rodgers as a G Tate or Deebo Samuel type slot.

So by trading down to say #13 to Chargers is they are drooling for Sewell, we get a 2nd and 3rd…

#13 is trade down again to around #22 and grab another 2nd…

#22. Z Collins (Titans trade up for top edge)
#31 trade up Chargers 2nd and 3rd - E Moore
#41- Eichenberg or Leatherwood RT
#53- D Nixon
3rd- A Rodgers or N Collins
3rd- Adebo or A Thomas

I sure like our OL with Leatherwood at RT

I love Z Collins next to Collins and in some packages Anzalone

E Moore will be a top 2-3 WR in this class. He’s got ty hill esque movement. Not quite, but close. 22 reps proves how strong he is. 4.37 proves the speed. Love him. 65 catches for 890 yards as a rookie. He’s the B Cooks role Goff has missed the last 2 years.

Rodgers plays the Kupp role. Gets open.

Nixon could be that 3-5 sack DT ala Corey Williams.

Would you take this draft

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I prefer to stay at 7 and was thinking if we were to trade back this year it’d have to include a 1st for next year however if we could pull this off I wouldn’t complain a bit.

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As an athlete, probably but Smith never had as dominating of a college season as Sewell did in 2019.

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$2,968,750 is N Williams  not 5-6M  make your points but check your facts

I get what your saying but you also must remember many draft picks don’t produce like you expect.

We don’t need to add to Dline I like the 2 LBs we cold use either one
I don’t like your Ol picks but i would take a OT early.

WQRs are ok but why trade up there are others who like Moore who are quick an fast .
If Glasgow can anchor RG and demand 11M, a guy like Eicheberg or Leatherwoos you saying these guys are as good as glassgow without playing one snap? Just asking

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No i wouldn’t cus its just wishing We don’t need that many picks. Give me 8 i am happy

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Seriously? I could swear we paid 2 years and 10M last year for Nick Williams with 4.9M guaranteed. Then he got us “1” sack and we forced him to take a pay cut or be released this year. I think 2.8M is still rich.

Outside of his 2019 year which was an age 29 outlier- he played in 44 games and had 1 career sack!!

Yes I will go on record that Leatherwood will be a plus starter at RT, and if Eichenbeg is kicked in to guard due to his shorter arms, I like him as a near pro bowl guard.

I know they haven’t played a down. Neither has Devonta Smith or Trey Lance.

If E Moore is drafted as a #2 option he will be a 1,000 yard wr with big play potential. Will be.

T Frederick
A Mack
Z Martin
F Ragnow
Max Unger

These are guys who were given super high floor grades at draft time.

I think Cox, Z Collins, and Jamin Davis will all be solid starters. D Moses too if he can stay healthy.

I think Tryon will be an 8-9 sack edge.

I don’t love any of the safeties.

I believe there is 3rd round value at CB and DT

E Moore, Bateman, Toney, Marshall will all be gone by 41.

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Yes but having 11 picks gives a decent chance to get 5-7 roster spots.

I hate paying guys like T Williams, N Williams, Big V, etc 5-9M a year deals. Guys who were 4-6th rounders who were solid starters for a year or two. Guys who are expected to get 800 yards, 3/4 sacks or a solid RG.

Nico Collins, Tufele, and A Banks. I bet those 3 guys have similar or better nfl careers. At least 2 will. That’s 3rd, 3rd, 4th… 3.0M per year. Versus us paying 15M or so this year.

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THANK YOU. I was starting to feel like I was on crazy pills for a minute there

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^This

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Agree. My point was I don’t think any of these guys are. Chase Young wasn’t and he’d easily be the #1 non prospect in this draft. He had 6 sacks and a heck of a pff grade… Peppers has 12 sacks, 6 ffs, interceptions, passes defenses etc. At 6’7” and 290 with 4.6 speed and hops he was the Calvin Johnson of DE prospects.

There appear to be some really nice off ball lbers, RG/RT fits, and role player WRs available in late 1 to end of 2…

Is there a Julio? Nope. Do I think E Moore will be a DJ Moore caliber guy? For sure.

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If I were building an ideal NFL roster with complimentary fits, this would be it.

I love trading down because we could easily land 3-4 of these guys.

Sewell
L Eichenberg
L Dickerson
Wyatt Davis
R Slater

K Pitts

T Lawrence

N Harris/K Gainwell(3rd down back)

J Chase WR1
R Bateman/D Smith
E Moore Slot WR

J Phillips rush DE
D Nixon
C Barmore
Boogie Basham

M Parsons
Z Collins
Jabril Cox

Jaycee Horn
P Surtain
Nickel- A Samuel Jr

Andre Cisco FS
Trevon Moehrig SS

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Pretty much nobody on this forum likes N Williams or Big V. But I’m not sure why you lumped T Williams in with those guys.

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Yes, last year the first 3 teams that took an OT whiffed on “generational talent”.