Hock is fine. He has a 66% reception percentage.
Kelce has a 73% reception percentage.
Andrews also has a 66% reception percentage.
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TE’s aren’t being used like 5 - 10 years ago unless you have a Kelce or Kittle. We didnt have that.
Next draft is going to be fun!
That’s our SB anyhow!
Yeah, it’s a nice change of pace.
Does this mean you’re changing your opinion of Holmes and his draft picks?
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Yep, when Pashcal started playing and we’ll , Kirby stepping up , even Barnes starting to show up. Hitting home runs on our 1st rders. I mean his draft picks are showing up all over the board. Can’t denie that. He’s been really good in the drafts.
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Except for the Levi pick.
I wish I was in his head on that one. I don’t get why you’d take a DT with a back injury that early…but it seems to have worked-out with Tevon Jenkins in Chicago.
Oh well, can’t win them all I guess.
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Hock isn’t even close to those guys!!!
Kelce and Andrews can actually run after the catch.
Slice the stats however ya want… everyone can see how much better those guys are than Hock.
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If your offense is based on yards after catch, it’s tough to work in a guy that believes all catches need to be taken to the ground.
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You get right down to it, none of us are.
No one’s worth what they’re getting paid and everyone thinks they’re worth more than what they’re getting.
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Yeah I still stand by that was a bad pick, and it was in my book. But he sure hit on a lot of others. I still think he can grow more in this job, but his drafting has been good.
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Hock’s showing his twue colors:
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Letting players go is definitely SOL. Knowing which ones to keep is where we hope for a change.
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I think what the lions have done with weight and Zylstra as well as what Mitchell will become, is TE is not a top 10 position to draft, and maybe not a first rd position to draft.
This is not a knock on Hockenson or any first rd TE, I just think that position is so variable from team to team.
Why do most top TEs get drafted early? Because they can catch and run. Hock is an example but so is Fant and Pitts. But when you are playing them as a TE, they become just a good receiver and terrible blocker, or at the best, average blocker.
Pitts is a really good receiver for a TE but when compared with other WRs drafted around him he wasn’t as good. it’s like they are great pass catchers for a TE, but not good enough to be great WRs. So then it comes down to what you ask them to do, and blocking is a huge aspect of that position. So if you’re drafting a TE to be a pass catcher you might as well just draft a WR.
I think the success of Brock wright has really shown this. Is he great? No, he blocks most of the time, but when he is asked to make catches he’s not covered or gets open and makes the play. And that is what makes him effective is he’s a perfectly capable pass catcher but he is also an asset in the run/pass blocking game. While he’s not a superstar, he does his job well but is also always going to be a 3rd or 4th receiving option in the eyes of the defense, and that is what makes a player like him effective.
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You absolutely nailed it here. And don’t let anybody sway you from this view of it unless you see something change on the field. Ignore every single person who tries to sell you on “things are changing.” Until you see it…stay in your position. There will always be someone trying to convince you that “it will be different this time.” Don’t listen.
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I think winning makes a big difference and hocks contributions if lions were winning would have been seen as more valuable , including his long run plays.
But imo he wasn’t why they were losing nor his absence why they’re winning
I don’t think his new contract would’ve kept team from winning
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I hear ya, but I don’t think him and his position are seen as a key component to winning, if that makes sense.
He is a good player and he definitely had his moments, but overall, when you can get 50 yds/game out of Brock wright and also get the same out of hockenson and pay one a whole lot less, it’s an easy decision.
I am not trying to devalue the TE position at all because I think it’s really important, but guys like Kittle aren’t common and I wouldn’t even put Pitts in his category… so they are complementary pieces of the offense but not focal points. And I think in a way there’s more value in having a solid couple TEs who aren’t going to grab the defense’s attention but can still produce when called upon receiving wise, but will consistently be solid blockers/extra OL
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I don’t disagree
But if lions were 6-4 and had hock his contributions would’ve been seen as more valuable to winning
And then let salary fall where it may
If these other guys are as good
They’re going to want to get paid like hock too
Lions need to know who to keep
Especially if they are good at drafting young talent.
You might need to really know how to evaluate who to keep when they’re all good to great
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@Pdono can’t really agree with this as most teams dedicate significant resources to stop Andrews and all their resources to stop Kelce. Yet they still achieve those percentages as the first option.
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Right on… and maybe… but if we were 6-4, would his contributions to the offense have been viewed much differently? Holmes said (believe him or not when he said this of course) if the lions were 6-1 at the time he still would’ve made the trade.
In regards to those other guys getting paid, yeah they will want to get paid eventually but if they don’t have the 1st rd draft history and are still only putting up 30-50 yds a game, or being utilized for a handful or less of pass catches a game, they probably wouldn’t be looking for over $10 mil a year which is where hockenson was believed to be asking.
Hockenson is a good player and him being drafted where he was was hoping they could get the next great TE. But he just never turned into that, and it didn’t seem like even when he was the focal point of our offense he was able to produce consistently. He had his big games for sure, but more often than not he did not seem to be a major factor one way or another
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