Couldn’t agree more. So many great points in this thread that it’s hard to pick just one. Even though I did.If Caldwell had the slightest inkling to have a running game, he may very well still be here. So would Prince ,not the singer, although that could explain why he left us so soon if he was a closet Lions fan…
The thing is, the lack of talent is on the D, and they are over performing.
The Oline is stacked with high $$$ FA’s and first round picks. They are laying down.
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This is a great point. I’ve made a couple posts where I was concerned about the optics of this trade. The optics are not nearly important from a fan perspective as it is with the players in that locker room.
Mike Zimmer didn’t have a 10 year vet at quarterback or take over a team that went 9-7 the year before.
Matt Patricia was given one of the best situations a coach that replaced a fired coach has ever been given in NFL history.
Comparing his 1st year to coaches who took over legit dumpster fires is not apples to apples.
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In 2000 Belichick went 5-11 with a 28 year old Drew Bledsoe(his only losing season with the pats).
No offense to the poster, but it doesnt make sense to me. Remember, that being an NFL player is a job. Its just like your job at work. Now, when someone you enjoy working with leaves or is fired, do you get to walk around pouting, halfassing and bitching that well, things aren’t the way they used to be. No, your ass has to focus on the job at hand, and to be a man and move on.
As has been said, I really liked Tate and he was a good player, but he wasn’t a true difference maker. What I mean is, we were 3-4 with him. We havent won a playoff game with him. Its not an insult to Tate whatsoever, what I mean is that Quinn has to make the right moves for the Lions team as a whole, but the players dont get to use that as an excuse to bitch and moan and give up.
People have brought this up, and its the right analogy. Philadelphia lost their QB. THE key to any team. A stud QB who had brought Philly out of some mediocrity. Their team had every reason to tank. Yet, they didnt. They rallied. They fought. They went on to win a Super Bowl against the best HC and best QB to put on a uniform.
If the players want to see the trading of Tate as a sign the Lions are tanking, well that continues to explain to me why this team CANT win, and why they believe they are cursed. They are fragile. They are weak minded. They bitched about practicing outdoors in 40 degree weather when they were going to be playing in a dome… Sorry, thats being a complete bitch. Football players LOVE playing in the slop. Some of the best NFL games came in blizzards, or rainstorms, or what have you. They LIKE when the weather is bad. If you don’t, well it continues to show you, this team is made up of some true bitches.
Here’s what I expect out of an NFL player. Your a person right? Thats what they love to say. Well here it comes from a fellow person. What I’d tell a coworker. I want you put your personal feelings aside, and to do your job, the one you collect a paycheck for, and if you can’t handle that then we can replace your face as well
If Tate isn’t difference maker because they were 3-4 then who is?
Should we try to trade Kenny and Kerryon for 1st round picks since they aren’t difference makers
Kenny and Kerryon are 1st and 2nd year players. Tate is an established veteran. Tate was also planning on leaving the Lions at the end of the year anyways. The Lions would have been foolish to pull a Suh (Which is what Mayhew would’ve done) and just “hope” he comes back at a reasonable cost and lose him for nothing.
Ask yourself really. Do you think the Lions were a playoff team with Tate, judging by what you saw against Seattle? Do you think Tate helps the Lions beat Minny? I dont. I think Quinn was right to try to acquire assets to bolster the team down the road. Especially after watching the Lions acquire a true difference maker in Harrison, and then see the team respond by laying a complete egg.
Again, dont see this as me insulting Tate. I liked the guy a lot. However, if you are going to preach the logic that trading Tate hurts the Lions because they feel they are taking, then you have to answer why the Lions looked so putrid after making a huge splash on getting Harrison. By that logic, the Lions should’ve been so inspired they wouldve rolled Seattle. Instead, they got rolled.
As a GM, you have to manage your team long term. The Lions essentially traded Tate and a 5th and Harrison and a 3rd. Most people rightly said, thats a good trade. However, from the players standpoint, they went full bitch mode 2 weeks in a row.
Stupid movie quote, but its true. “You’ve got the worst attitude Ive ever seen man…” “Attitude reflects leadership”
The Lions problem wasn’t losing Tate. The Lions problem is, there is no leadership coming from that roster. Thats how they can play so good one week, and so bad another. Sure, there are talent issues. No doubt in my mind. However, they CAN compete. They just aren’t. Thats on the players.
Im getting real sick and tired of watching faces change, but the same script on the field keeps playing.
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So you don’t see the irony in bringing up attitude reflects leadership in reference to the front office trading Golden Tate?
Maybe there is no leadership in the entire organization
I see the irony, my issue is if losing one player from your roster is enough to cause you to think your season is lost, you werent going anywhere anyways.
Heres how i see it. Its some motivational speaker mumbo jumbo, but it is what it is.
A lot of people believe in destiny. However, some people see destiny as you wait for your opportunities. Others see destiny as something you go out and make happen.
I see the Lions as more the destiny waiters. They are waiting for their opportunity. They dont go out and take it. Then when one thing goes wrong, they go into full tank mode. Opportunity makers, would see losing Tate not as a benefit, but as an opportunity. More touches for Golladay. Changes for Powell, etc.
Lets say Tate had tore his knee in practice after the Seattle game and was lost for the year. Does that excuse the players going into full tank mode? No. The season isnt over. Philly didnt go into tank mode when they lost Wentz. Right now the players are looking for an excuse to fail, and they are hinting its management. The truth is, this team doesnt know how to succeed. This gets back to my point of the Lions never winning anything with Tate to begin with.
Every NFL management person out there said the Lions getting Harrison for a 5th was a steal. Everyone agreed the Lions getting a 3rd for Tate, was a damn good deal. So how exactly is that “bad management”
Patricia is too hard on the players. He made them practice in cold weather. He made them do conditioning. Meanwhile, the Lions have one of the healthiest rosters compared to the rest of the NFL. We were missing 1 player vs the Vikes. They were missing 3 and Theilen was walking wounded out there. And yet, the players are whining because practice is too hard.
As with a lot of people in life, rather than the Lions players doing what they can to get better, they are instead looking for reasons why they are not better. Sure, they have moments of good play, where everything comes together, and they make some very surprising showings. Then, as soon as theirs any disruption, back in the tank.
If that isnt being a mental midget, I dont know what is. This team is so busy waiting for its turn, its watching team after team after team go in the can and everyone else walk up and take their season, while in the process of making their own run.
This Detroit team was going full on fat-cat, and Seattle walked into their house and slapped them with both hands across the face. Detroit can’t handle it, and cowered. Minnesota just did bad things to their momma’s, and instead, the team cowers.
Trust me. Anyone whose followed the boards know, the words are painful to write because I was the one saying patience and it would take time. I thought we would be getting better as we did in October, and then really coming up in November. Instead, i see the same empty shell of a team that has no chance of the playoffs. This game against Minny was the same as last years game against the Steelers. Just when the Lions were starting to build momentum, they let someone else hammer them back to where they belong.
At any given time, your employer might come up to you and say "we have to let x employee go. Or maybe we are transferring you to a different team or department. Hell, maybe someone you enjoy working for gets transferred to a different state because they are opening a new office somewhere else. Does that give you the right, as an employee, to then question the management? They DID make a decision that benefitted the orginization. YOU didnt like it. Well, if you decide that you are going to pout and let your work tank, is that acceptable? Ever? Absolutely not. And its not acceptable for the employees of the Detroit Lions football team either.
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Why do some teams lose key players and keep winning while others fold like a cheap towel? it is coaching. Right now MP is a complete failure. He may get better and turn it around but he has taken a team that played well and looked to be on the verge of making the playoffs to a weekly embarrassment. If Matt is playing worse that is on the coaches. If the o-line is underperforming that is on the coaches. If the secondary has regressed that is on the coaches. ST’s regressed and they canned the coach. Funny thing is the same guy put one of the top ST’s in the league on the field one year earlier. Did he suddenly forget how to coach or are the players just not responding and playing hard for the new head coach. Something MP is doing is not working and I don’t buy scheme change and lack of talent any more. Sure we have holes but our best players are worse than a year ago. MP needs to eat some humble pie. Remember when Coughlin was called out by his players. The team had talent but did not play well for him. HE changed and they went on to win a SB and were competitive for years. I have a lot of respect for the man because it was not about him and his way. I just don’t get the vibe with MP. Anyone with eyes can see this team is not playing for him. Instead of beating the “it takes time” and “we need better players” drum or “lets fire the ST coach” how about some self reflection.
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I think we agree on the principal, just not the cause. The players may have enjoyed playing under Caldwell. They still didnt win for him, either. Or Schwartz. You can change the name on the door as many times as you want. Its never going to change anything unless the players make it change. How many times do we hear that Players win and coaches lose? How many times do we hear that good coaches have good players?
One thing that went on in my head.
I remember in 1997, after the Red Wings got whipped 4-0 in game 4, to tie the series with the Blues at 2 apiece. Steve Yzerman, the quiet guy whom up to this point was a player who couldnt win it all, stood up in the locker room and said “We have a pretty good team here. If we are going to do something here, then lets get off our ass and do it.”
The team rallied around it. They only lost 2 more games for the rest of the playoffs. Everyone said, that speech, with no yelling and really not much said, fired everyone up. It rallied the team together.
Now I ask you. Who on the Lions makes that speech? At what point are the players going to stop letting guys come take their candy.
Let me ask you another question. We lost in Minnesota. Thats no shame, lots of teams do. Now, who on the Lions did you see fighting back. Remember what supposedly kickstarted the Lions in SF? Lagaratte Blount shoving a guy after a late hit. Supposedly that lit a fire and the Lions started getting their ass in gear. Well, someone came and took their candy again, and I want to know, who is exactly is fighting on this team?
I’m sorry just can’t buy there are no leaders on the roster.
Especially when other teams rosters were worse than we were got a coaching change and became better than we ever have been.
It’s why I don’t buy that it takes 3 years bit at all.
In 2018 you get the best out of your human capital or you aren’t a good leader.
Referencing things that worked in pro sports 20 years ago is as relevant as referencing things in technology that worked 20 years ago.
Society has changed and so has the way you motivate people.
We disagree there. Getting into an entirely different argument, theres a simple fact. People are still motivated by the same things. How we accomplish things changes, but what people want and how people behave, doesnt.
Im a history nut. If there’s one thing thats a constant, is that history repeats itself. We fancy ourselves a new progressive society. So did the 60’s. And the 20’s. Etc.
One thing the millennial generation will learn in time. Its not up to me to come meet you at your level. Its up for you to want something, and to work for it. Theres plenty who do, but theres also a good group of people who sit back and wait for something good to happen.
Like has been said on here already. The Lions have gone 23 years without winning a division title. By ACCIDENT, they should have stumbled into success. We’ve seen teams rise, die, and rise again and we can barely hit 8-8. That kind of sustained failure, it pretty much takes effort. Or a lack thereof.
The Chicago Cubs were jokes for 100 years. It wasnt until they hired a guy with a proven predigree to win, that all of a sudden, they did.
You’re right I just don’t agree that its leadership on the roster.
It starts with coaching, teams full of malcontents and losers magically become winners with good leadership and coaching.
We will see. Im jaded because my wife works for the government. She has a boss who truly cares for her employees, and is always willing to help, and pushes to get things done. Yet, her employees all know they are government lifers, and that its borderline impossible to get fired from their job, so they dont listen or help or generally care about their work. And guess what, the team performance is carried by a select few, while the majority collect fat paychecks and feel that work is beneath them
What i mean is, you can have a good manager, who truly cares, but if you have a bunch of people who refuse to work, then you still get crap results. You could change that manager for anyone else, and the results will be similar or worse, kinda like what we see with the Lions. Until someone comes in who can hold people’s feet to the fire, and show that there is a consequence to bad performance, nothing changes.
Where that someone comes from, it all depends.
Also, I like Patricia, but i have some major questions from the past few weeks. Chiefly starting with Tabor. How the hell you can play the WORST RANKED PLAYER in football at a position, week in and week out, is inexcuseable. Tabor needs to be benched, until he can work on his issues if possible, in practice. Not when its killing the team on Sundays.
I manage a work group of about 90 employees in tech sales.
40% of the front line are millenials.
I can’t tell my boss the staff is too soft I need totally new staff to perform and I live in a right to work state.
Any good leader of people in a bottom line business like football gets the best of his people period
The special teams was elite for years then he comes in and it’s a dumpster fire.
That’s coaching.
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Actually for his first 3 years the Lions ST was near the top in the NFL under his coaching. This year was the first year it performed poorly. Oddly enough just about every group on this team performed poorly.
Could it be the HC and not the ST coach?
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Hey Air, lets explore that, and see what shakes out.
What do you think the HC could be doing thats causing the issues?
That’s why I think Patricia is a dumpster fire.
We can blame scheme or whatever but the parts of the team where scheme didn’t change all got worse even when the personnel got better.
He’s the only variable that changed on special teams and offense.
Ken Whisenhunt 2.0 or even Josh McDaniels version 2.