Let's raid New Orleans

I know there is a temptation to correlate Brady/Belichick’s Patriots, where we bought our last tee-shirt, to Payton/Brees’ success. But man I’m seeing some thorough success from the Front Office, to the current Dline coach and what they’ve done in and outside of New Orleans. How about:

Jeff Ireland for GM

Pete Carmichael for HC

Joe Lombar… ha ha J/K…
Curtis Johnson for OC

Ryan Neilsen for DC

There are some other good options as well like Aaron Glenn who’s done a great job with the DB’s and has a lot of good experience as well.

With all the years of top offenses, this year it’s their Defense that is dominating the league. #1 in YPG allowed, #5 Passing YPG allowed, #2 Rushing YPG allowed, #4 in PPG allowed. Tied for 3rd in INTs, Tied for 4th in total Takeaways, Tied for 3rd in total Sacks, Tied for 4th in Sacks per game. With Hill playing and even when Brees was in their passing offense has not been as dominant, but it’s been very efficient with either QB, and they are getting it done on the ground with the 7th ranked rushing attack this season.

With all the talk of package deals, I like the success and experience levels of the Saint’s tree, compared to say KC. I trust Carmichael more than Bieniemy to take over a team. The Saints rushing attack is considerably better than KC’s is and is only 1.9 Points per Game less as an offense. I think Patrick Mahomes right now is quite superior to 2020 Brees or Hill. Defensively while NO is #2 in the league at stopping the run, KC is ONE spot better than US. Food for thought…

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Sean Payton is the straw that stirs the drink down there. I wouldn’t trust anyone else other than their DC.


I don’t know. They went 7-9 3 straight seasons and were in salary cap hell until Jeff Ireland showed up.

No way to dispute this. Same with Reid. But he’s been doing it with Payton for so long you’d think he could bring that scheme here and teach it easily. But we could go with Ireland, the DC then anyone but Lombardi on the offensive side of the ball for OC.

I wouldn’t try to replicate the Saints scheme again. There is way too much tape out there to study, as we found out. Payton and Brees make it work. And even then its not working top notch anymore so they have to keep throwing check downs to Kamara and 1,000 slant routes to Michael Thomas.


You act like they aren’t 10-2. I guess they have the tape and still can’t stop it. I just see guys open all the darned time and in the NFL that means the scheme is getting it done.

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I look at it like Belichick and the Pats. It works there because they have Bill making it work. It works in New Orleans because Payton makes it work.

I think that’s one of those things that’s impossible to prove either way. I’d need a little more than Joe Lombardi’s tenure as proof positive. The same argument can be made for every single coordinator out there that falls under a HC with a same side of the ball background. No offensive coaches from under Reid because it’s all Reid. None from Payton because it’s all Payton etc. No defensive coaches from under Tomlin because it’s all Tomlin. It’s sort of limiting.

I’m guessing you don’t know that Payton is literally the playcaller in New Orleans. You can’t hire “Sean Payton’s offensive coordinator” with the Saints, because Payton is the offensive coordinator and playcaller.

I agree. I saw Lombardi, and that shit was horrifying!


I’d need to know more about how collaborative Payton is in N.O.

Is it a Belichick type of situation?

That’s what intrigues me about raiding the Steelers’ front office. It seems like Kevin Colbert has a team of guys he’s been collaborative with for a long time, through all of that success.

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I’m aware of that because Payton loves it. But Carmichael has done it multiple times for stretches in New Orleans and did a great job with it when he’s had his opportunities. The offense has flourished under him calling the plays period. Your characterization is inaccurately narrow. Unless you don’t believe Sean Payton himself.

Sean Payton has given up playcalling duties twice during his 12 years with the New Orleans Saints – only once by choice.

“Well, the first time it wasn’t a decision. I got run over in Tampa and I was in the hospital,” said Payton, who broke his leg in 2011 when Jimmy Graham got tackled into him on the sideline.

*Longtime offensive coordinator Pete Carmichael Jr. did so well while Payton was stuck up in the coaching booth for the next few weeks that Payton let Carmichael keep the reins for the rest of that season s New Orleans finished 13-3 and set the NFL record for yards in a season.

Payton took the job back in 2013 after he served his one-year bounty suspension. Then Payton gave the job back to Carmichael in 2016 when the team was in a rut, but took it back later that season when he was particularly excited for a grudge match against former defensive coordinator Gregg Williams (which the Saints won 49-21).

Payton has always raved about Carmichael and said he would trust him “in a heartbeat” to call the plays since it’s such a collaborative effort between Payton, Carmichael, quarterback [Drew Brees](https://www.espn.com/nfl/player/_/id/2580/drew-brees) and the entire offensive staff throughout the week anyway.

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Can’t assume Lombardi = Carmichael because neither is Sean Payton.

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Andy Reid has a unique situation going with KC because he invites all of his coaches to contribute to the offense. They said one day per week they get the coaches into a room and everybody goes up to the chalk board and makes up crazy chit. Some of those plays or variations actually get added to the playbook.

Some people like to get hit over the head with frying pans, so long as you are hitting them with a different frying pan this time.

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Which is somehow 100% unique compared to this:

Payton has always raved about Carmichael and said he would trust him “in a heartbeat” to call the plays since it’s such a collaborative effort between Payton, Carmichael, quarterback Drew Brees

-Notice who is NOT mentioned and who is. Carmichael IS, Lombardi was NOT. I’m not saying Lombardi is fully excluded, but it is beyond obvious that Payton does indeed seek input from Carmichael. He has trusted playcalling to Carmichael for multiple stretches. I don’t recall Lombardi ever calling plays in N.O. Carmichael HAS and did it at a high level. To somehow try to say Bieniemi/Kafka is different than Payton/Carmichael is just trying to win a discussion with a little mockery thrown in for some reason. If you don’t like a guy, fine. But the bending of facts is just lame.

Yes, what Reid does in KC is unique. That’s why I thought I’d mention it. Its not a requirement for anything, just an interesting note. Its kind of cool to think that if we did things like KC (I’m not saying to do it), you could see an awesome offensive play on Sunday that was actually dreamed up by our linebackers coach. :joy:

Just pointing out that N.O. is not the one man show on offense that you said it was, according to Payton himself and the multiple times that Carmichael was tasked with running the offense and calling the plays successfully. As to the LB coach designing plays… well yes that IS quite unique.

In KC I think the rising star is Kafka. Reid wanted to draft him as a player, then brought him onboard as an assistant, then promoted him, then expanded his role as passing game coord. I think the only way to get him is to give him the HC gig (which it may be a bit early for) because somebody is hiring Bieniemy away this year for HC duties. That will leave OC to Kafka for certain. No way he leaves that job, for an OC job here, if he isn’t protected by Assistant HC status anyway. I’ve not landed on anyone yet, though Ireland for GM to me would be a great hire.

Okay, here’s a legitimate question. With the Brees era drawing to a close, why not offer the Saints a trade for Payton himself? That’s how the Buccaneers acquired John Gruden, it’s the price Kraft had to pay the Jets for signing Bellichik. Why keep trying to pluck the fruit off the tree in the hopes it sprouts when you can just transplant the tree?

What do you think the Lions would have to give up to swing that?