When does it become the Goff trade and not the Stafford trade?
5 Likes
2 Likes
It’s more common to hear about elder, spousal and child abuse. But quarterback abuse is a thing, and this judge, jury and executioner say Sean McVay is guilty of it. Thank you, Boy Wonder.
3 Likes
From my perspective, it was always The Trade.
3 Likes
Snead said there were inquiries or that he had taken calls. Y’all should do the math on what you’re suggesting, from a trade perspective. The thought exercise that says Snead was getting offers leads to an enormous and unrealistic haul for Stafford.
I honestly don’t know why folks are so unwilling to admit how far his stock had dipped. He is STILL being overlooked by analysts in their draft projections for Detroit. The jury is still out for many folks, fans and analysts alike.
1 Like
I’ve always viewed Goff as a better QB than Wentz and I think most analysis even do. So the Wentz trade was always the baseline for the Lions acquiring Goff, a 1st (easy condition) and 3rd. So start with a 1st and 3rd and go up from there, depending on how much better you think Goff is.
2 Likes
Right, so three 1sts and two 3rds for Stafford? I don’t think so.
Point of it all is, he is a project that could potentially pay huge dividends. If BJ and DC are able to unlock his potential and keep his confidence up, that’s a major win. What BJ has done with him so far has erased the notion that Goff needed McVay in his ear. He clearly has a grasp of what they’re doing and is checking them into good plays. He needs to maintain that confidence, and it seems we have the coaching staff that can help.
3 Likes
Amen!
2 Likes
We traded Stafford for something closer to what Watson and Wilson fetched and rightfully so.
So you would have rather had Wentz than Goff? Forgive me if I don’t trust your QB analysis.
Goff was NOT a project. Goff has done as much for BJ as BJ has done for Goff.
2 Likes
Ok I guess. But the reality is that Goff showed he could do this the last half of last season with VERY limited help in the form of a very inexperienced WR group. Many critics just couldn’t give the credit where credit was due.
Sure Goff needed a team and coaches that knew how to use him, but the indications were there that what happened in LA was much more about McVay than our QB, even before he got here.
There are a few of us on this forum that have been saying since very early on that Goff looks like he is a long term answer at QB and is very good (just dealing with a revolving door at WR etc), but others as recently as a couple of weeks ago still were saying we need to draft a 1st round QB. McShay still has us drafting one! I have been on the Goff bandwagon since very early on. It is becoming clear who was right.
1 Like
I agree. The narrative that Goff was a project and that Brad Holmes can’t scout the QB position has been wrong all along. Anyone that was paying attention last season knows why the offense struggled early last year - and that was because they were running an all new offense with the least experienced set of receivers I have ever seen assembled on an NFL team.
I believe Brad Holmes knew exactly what he was getting with Goff, and knew that he fleeced the Rams all along. He had a front row seat to watch McVay’s broken relationship with his QB go off the rails.
2 Likes
Actually, I even remember a time when tons of people on THIS board were writing him off though he was a probowler only a few years ago and the circumstances around him obviously sucked.
And I fully expect that some of those people will again clamber on the we’ll-never-win-with-Goff bandwagon the next mediocre game he has.
1 Like
I remember a few of us saying that last year
I didn’t have faith in Goff until the end of last season
Even then, the faith was only mild
At this point I want to see him go on a great run and we win 4 more games and maybe even make some noise in the playoffs.
There should be no first round discussion regarding quarterbacks this year. Later, sure, get a developmental guy.
He came here mentally abused and thrown in the trash by McVey — these guys have given him love and the opportunity to get back to himself.
Sure looks like it will pay off huge.
If he continues to play top 1/3 of the league he could be here yet another 5-7 years. Wouldn’t that be something.
3 Likes
I’d amend that slightly. I think Holmes knew that the decline in G’s play was due much more to the erosion of Goff’s confidence at McVay’s hands (and the erosion of the OL and running game) than to any irreversible flaw in Goff. He couldn’t have known that Goff could rebound. But he knew that Goff was a tough, resilient QB who’d work his a$$ off and that the trade would be a before-and-after moment for the Lions IF they could help Jared resume the earlier, extremely promising arc of his career.
You say Holmes knew what he was getting with Goff. I say Holmes knew that Goff was a risk well worth taking.
3 Likes
Well, there’s some common ground anyway.
I don’t understand the extreme position that others have echoed in this thread. It’s as though it’s a slight to say Goff has responded well to coaching. Evidently we should have known he was a finished product and needed nothing, except an OC that would respond well to Goff’s instructions
3 Likes
Especially having been on Hard Knocks and being so well liked.
We received what the market is for a QB of his caliber. I do think some Lions fans undersell what Stanford’s value was around the league.
I think his stock had dipped mainly due to McVay using him as his escape goat and him being traded. Which gave many the impression he was done. People forgot he was a probowler and that Goff is young. It clearly hurt his confidence. The talent around Goff at RB and OL had seriously effected his play. He comes to Detroit and has no weapons. As the weapons improved so did Goff’s confidence.
I now see the Goff I saw back in 2018 and not the Goff I saw in 2020.
I don’t know if I’d say that they unlocked his potential. His potential was there and had already surfaced. What they did do is help restore his confidence.
I think you have to give Goff, Dan and company credit for turning it around. I wouldn’t point to just Ben because we saw glimpses of good Goff before Ben was OC. I really think you have to give a lot of credit to Dan and to Goff.
1 Like
Goff was ass under Lynn, before Ben took over. Night and day. And, yes, talent around him matters.
And has any of the Goff lifers seen him own an offense and check into plays as reliably as he is right now??? Wasn’t that one of the knocks under McVay, that McVay needed to be in his ear for the offense to work?
For the love of God, can we not accept him at his own word that he’s playing the best ball of his career?
Come on, people. Growth isn’t a bad thing!!!
2 Likes
My own stance has been consistent. (I know you’re not saying otherwise.) Goff’s play had slipped before McVay jettisoned him. Not NEARLY as much as his detractors insisted, but his confidence was clearly down. The question was: why the decline in his play? Was he just a QB whose profound limits had been obscured by the genius of Sean McVay? Or a very talented QB whose confidence had been undercut by an abusive micro-manager and whose performance was further undercut by a loss of OL protection and a running game?
Having watched Jared for a long time, I was and am MUCH closer to the second take than the first. I was pissed that Holmes gave Goff so little to work with at WR last year. That was a miserable way to go about restoring JG’s confidence, even allowing for the injuries.
But here we are. And finally Jared’s getting a chance to show what he can do under reasonable circumstances. And he’s showing plenty.
2 Likes