Murray comes in at 5'10

God, I hate to say that I’m being seduced by that pick.

I think Arizona ends up making the move, but we’ll see.

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I didnt give him a chance at a very long career if he came in at the rumored 5’8"… But, now? Well…


Stop it!..

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Let’s get a complete team around Matt. 2015 is the only time he’s had that, and he was hampered by Lombardi. We’re really close.
I know nobody thinks we’d be successful handing a rookie QB this team, right?

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2015? Defense was terrible that year. Gave up 400 points.

Offense wasn’t really all that either, 358 points? We scored 346 in 2007…

Did you mean 2014?

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Did you see had on elevator socks?

Who said he would start year one if we pick him?

As if we’ve been so successful with Matt Stafford at QB, even when we had Calvin Johnson in his prime…

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Kyler Murray measures up: The Oklahoma QB exceeded expectations when he was measured at 5-10-1. The big question was whether he’d hit 5-10. He topped it by an eighth inch. Perhaps a bigger question was hand size. Murray was measured at 9.4 – the same reported size for Mitchell Trubisky, drafted second overall by the Bears in 2017. Overall, a winning day for Murray – hands down. – Mike O’Hara

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If Arizona doesn’t make a swing for him, I’d be shocked.

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5’10” and 207 pounds. My biggest concern with him was his frame. He looked like a flyweight on the field, but 207 at that height is pretty good. He’ll need to use his speed and learn to go down or step out of bounds instead of taking big hits. A few days of watching Russell Wilson’s game film would point him in the right direction.

Yeah, this definitely is not his playing weight.

Yeah. Brain fart!

I still don’t think you can blame Lombardi for trying to fix Stafford. 2013 was a disaster with a monumental choke job down the stretch. 2012 was no picnic either. Going into 2014, you have a QB who had a great year in 2011 (although if you look close there were a lot of points in garbage time in that year. We had wins only against .500 teams or worse.)

Caldwell came in with the mandate to fix Stafford. Stafford did start to get better. You’ll notice that with Lombardi in 2015, he was over 60% completion in every game that year. Yes, JBC took over half way, but look at that schedule. It was a cakewalk in the 2nd half. First half we played mostly playoff teams and Lombardi still had Stafford playing consistently. 2015 67.2% completion on the year. The games Lombardi called had pretty good completion percentage.

If anyone torpedoed anyone, it was Stafford that torpedoed Lombardi. Lombardi tried to get him to do things he didn’t want to do, so Lombardi had to go. The short pass/control offense is not Stafford’s forte. As soon as Cooter gets in, Stafford all of a sudden got to have input into what plays get called. We play the weakest teams ever for the 2nd half of the season. Bam, Cooter looks like a genius.

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Lombardi’s offense was more predictable than Cooters. Sure Matt played safer, and made completions.
Why was everyone screaming for Lombardi’s head? We were all ignorant then, right? Not, like numbers can be twisted to make a revisionist points appear to stick.
I mean, I watched those games, too!
But, let’s pretend that our receivers were healthy, and that we hand a decent Oline. No, Matt had everything he needed to be great and failed.
That’s a load of manure, and you know it!
Defense took us to the playoffs. Period.
It sure as hell wasn’t Chris Durham’s sure hands! That was the season Nate dropped the pizza. CJ was out several games and was playing at about 70% at the end of the season because there were no other credible threats.
Then, the super conservative, see through game calling.
I’ll give you this, Matt Stafford is not Drew Brees and never will be.
He’s also not Peyton Manning and never will be.
It’s my contention that he never should have been asked to be! You wouldn’t ask Drew Brees to be Peyton Manning. You wouldn’t ask Peyton Manning to be Brett Farve. It’s not his skill set.
The best schemes are built around personnel on the team running it, not a team 1,700 miles away!
Hell, Matt Stafford hadn’t been allowed to be Matt Stafford since Schwartz/Linehan left.
Now, you’ll no doubt point at CJ… How many full seasons did he play? How many games did he play extremely limited? How many games was he little more than a decoy?
How many games was the #2 receiver on the field?
Who was the #3 receiver?
How many games did we have a credible run threat?
How many games did we have even a decent Oline?
Reality isn’t an excuse!

A PFF recap on Staffords 2014 season. They dropped him to the 19th ranked QB

Murray is going first overall.

I think Lombardi was fired because the QB wasn’t responding to his coaching and there was a power struggle between OC and QB. QB with tenure x 1000 = QB wins. Suppose the reason why it was so predictable was because the QB couldn’t handle more? Perhaps the nuances of the offense were too much for the gunslinger? Put yourself in both Lombardi’s shoes and Stafford’s shoes, not just Stafford’s.

I’ve heard the excuses from the pro-Stafford camp a million times. Some of them are circular. Like “credible run threat” are actually circular. We didn’t have the personnel to run because we built everything in favor of the QB. We built the OL for pass pro. We never really even tried to run the ball. “We have an arm and I"m going to use it” - Caldwell.

How do you expect results from a run game if you never run the ball? The OL never got to hit, they got hit. They were always backing up in pass pro. Run games need reps and inertia. We never gave the run game a chance. We threw a lot to backs, jacking up Stafford’s stats (inflating the completion percentage and counting RAC as passing yards). When we did run, it was a lot of times draw plays (i.e. out of pass pro), then we wondered why the run game didn’t work. (I didn’t wonder.) What else are you going to do if you’re in shotgun all the time? With Lombardi, the plays under center increased all of a sudden, Stafford looks lost. We did the same in 2018 under center… We got our 100 yd rusher, but at the cost of all those QB bennies we’d been giving him. Stafford didn’t look so good, did he?

As for “Stafford being Stafford” just look at 2012 and 2013 (especially the last 4 game choke job by Stafford in 2013). Stafford being Stafford got Linehan and Schwartz fired. They had to bring in a coach that could “fix” Stafford. They brought in Cooter to be the QB coach and Lombardi to install a ball control offense. Stafford couldn’t/wouldn’t do it. Yeah, we TRIED “Stafford being Stafford” until 2013. It. Didn’t. Work. I even blame 2014 indirectly on Stafford. We were so fixated on supporting Stafford that we passed over Aaron Donald for Eric Bobblehands. Ebron gets blame for his play, of course, but his comments after he left like “Stafford only throws fastballs” do provide some insight as to why that was a doomed pick from the start. It is my belief that taking Donald would have carried the miserable offense (even if you let Stafford be Stafford and we got 2012/2013 results) to a division win and a first round bye and maybe even wins at that level. But Fairley got hurt and the DL couldn’t carry the team any more.

The name of the game is not building a team so Stafford can be (look) good. The name of the game is creating an effective offense. For every year but 2011, we’ve been mediocre at best on offense, despite continuing the quest for the best skill positions to make Stafford’s job easier. I agree he needed a better OL, but then if you do that, where do you cut? Defense? Skill positions? His salary?

Which reminds me of the other problem. We’re paying Stafford way too much for what he brings. If he needs the kind of supporting cast you suggest (kind of like what Mark Sanchez had in 2009-2010), then we should be paying him less so that we can afford such a supporting cast. Can’t have your cake and eat it too.

Stafford isn’t good enough to carry a team but we’re paying him as if he is. And then people like you complain that we haven’t built a team around him. Pass game’s fine, but the run game needs help. Yeah, well, maybe bigger backs and more attempts and snaps under center, but that negatively affects the pass game…

You’d have a stronger point if he were consistent in his play, but his hot/cold act is not on the supporting cast. He’s hot for 2 quarters, cold for 2. One game, great, another game, crap. Both with same supporting cast.

That’s what I did. Stafford is NOT Drew Brees.
Mayhew, Caldwell, and Lombardi decided he should be. He wasn’t, and never was going to be!
Lombardi is a one trick pony. He couldn’t effectively game plan to Matt’s strengths, especially given the lack on the Oline, and around the terrible luck the team had with it’s “play makers”, health wise.
You’re definitely right about him having bad days. You can see it on his face. If he’s not feeling it, it’s going to be a long day.

dO wE nEeD tO MaKe A sTaFfOrD mEgAtHrEaD tO pIn aT tHe tOp oF tHe pAgE?!?!


Tried the gunslinger. Didn’t work.

Tried the control offense. Didn’t work.

At what point do you say it’s the player? If he doesn’t fit any coach or scheme you give to him, what then? When do you throw in the towel?

AS per the topic, we’re not going to draft Murray. He’ll go sooner than we pick.