They never would have seen the field playing behind Stafford.
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That’s a little bit of hindsight and/or speculation.
Stafford has been injured. Maybe instead of playing him injured they’d have gone with a more reliable backup than Rudock or Dan O…
Also, the threat of a non-beta male QB might have pushed Stafford more than the guys who were strictly backups.
Just because they’re not playing in a game, doesn’t mean they don’t have value. Hell, coach them up and trade them for better picks than you used.
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That’s why Cook has the “asshat” label. He’s an Alpha dog.
Of course it’s speculation since they were never on the Lions.
None of those guys mentioned would have done any better in a JBC offense.
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Rypien and Johnson had some talented teams they played on. Yes you can win with an average QB when you have the redskins OL or the Bucc’s defense. Those teams had Hof players. Not defending Stafford here, but i dont buy into the Lions having enough talent to win SB with a "Trent Dilfer " type at QB.
I think we need to separate these particular QBs or else its misleading. Rypien was a little thought of QB who had a good year on a really good football team. Brad Johnson was a game manager who successfully managed the game for a top notch defensive team. Dilfer was on one of the greatest rushing and defensive teams of all time. He just suited up, limited his mistakes and made a throw here and there.
The year Rypien won the Super Bowl he was 2nd in the league in TD passes and 4th in passing yards. He actually performed, he wasn’t “just a guy” out there collecting free wins.
I honestly don’t know what you guys are seeing, in comparisons to all-time worst SB winning QBs? I feel like Stafford is easily top 10 in the league, and sometimes top 5. I’ve never said that about a Lions QB. Up until him, Eric Kramer is the only QB I even remotely viewed as a serviceable NFL starter.
I believe Matt’s going to win a SB or two before he’s done. For the first time in his career, he’ll actually have a run game and a line. No QB would thrive under the conditions Matt has been under. JBC is debatably the worst OC you will ever see on any NFL team. Coot was a slight upgrade, and we were happy to see him, as he was an upgrade. Now, we have real NFL coaches. let’s get this party started. Go Matt! Go Lions!
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I agree with you 99%. If you have a hole and you are trying to fill it thru the draft, that’s a huge mistake. I also agree with having more than 1 QB and what we’ve been carrying as a backup QB to Stafford has been an absolute joke. We weren’t even trying in most years, it reminded me of the Colts with Peyton Manning.
I was stationed outside of DC in 90-92. That Redskins team was beyond dominant. I think i saw them in Preseason (maybe even against detroit) and knew they were a SB team. Rypein was sacked 6 times that YEAR i believe. So i get that he put up great numbers that year, but i think it was a product of the talent he had around him.
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The frustrating thing about Stafford is that he should be top five. He has the arm, the experience and all the opportunities. But he is still maddingly inconsistent. Just when I think I’m a believer he will lay a turd in an important game
He’s like the Lions themselves. They are good at pulling the rug or from under you
I have seen a lot of what you have seen. I have no idea if we will even get to a SB during Stafford’s career in Detroit, but I do know for a pocket passer like Stafford, we have not schemed, blocked, or ran the ball very well for much of his career.
2018, he was 10th on the list with 40 sacks. Detroit was 23rd in rushing.
2017, he was 3rd on the list with 47 sacks. Detroit was 32nd, last in rushing.
2016, he was 7th on the list with 40 sacks. Detroit was 30th in rushing.
2015, he was 7th on the list with 44 sacks. Detroit was 31st in rushing.
2014, he was 4th on the list with 48 sacks. Detroit was 28th in rushing.
It’s laughable when some start stating Stafford needs to be challenged by bringing in other QB’s because he is somehow an under performer. Or they say he is in some way not a leader.
The good news is, Quinn and Patricia value Stafford and see the same stats and scenario we have seen. They are bringing in the system and tools so he does not get pummeled in the pocket as much.
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He is inconsistent (sometimes) because he is getting killed and has had basically zero run game. The predictability and simplicity of the Detroit offense under JBC/Lombardi/Caldwell was a mess and that was evident during the Jets game last year. That is not Stafford’s fault.
Actually, I can’t believe he has performed as well as he has under these conditions.
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Agreed. In my post, I meant Lambo was the worst OC Ever…literally the worst I’ve seen. It’s hard to focus on downfield reads when you have zero trust in your OL and are running for your life more plays than not. Pressure causes your mind to go elsewhere, hence inconsistency. Aaron Rodgers is often spoken of as the best there is, and wen his OL fills him, he looks like a dumpster fire.
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Except sometimes he misses open receivers badly. Even with time. Shows sloppy footwork, doesn’t see the field well and runs into coverage. He’s not particularly elusive in the pocket and doesn’t throw people open like the great QBs
Sometimes he is great and will scramble out of the pocket and throw a rocket…but too often he lapses into bad Stafford
Sure, some of that is on the coaches and scheme. But some of that is on him too
Every QB does…sometimes.
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Okay fellas, can we get back tot he OTAs? If somebody wants to continue the discussion about Stafford, fine. But start your own thread please. Meanwhile, here’s some thoughts from Tim Twentyman on the 1st OTAs he’s seen, with some of my own thoughts included. Since this is Memorial Day weekend, the Lions will not be back on the field until Wednesday I believe, but we may not get more observations then cuz the practices are not always open to the media (beat writers). When I see 'em, I’ll post 'em.
- Young players getting opportunities early (this is good!)
The list of players working off to the side with trainers, or not taking part in the voluntary practices altogether, was a virtual who’s who of the Lions roster. Defensive end Trey Flowers, cornerback Justin Coleman, wide receiver Kenny Golladay and wide receiver Marvin Jones Jr. didn’t take part in practice. Cornerback Darius Slay and defensive tackle Damon Harrison Sr. aren’t in Allen Park for the workouts.
We saw defensive lineman Da’Shawn Hand get reps inside alongside A’Shawn Robinson on the first-team defense. A number of the young receivers got quality work with Jones and Golladay watching. Teez Tabor got first-team reps at cornerback, and so did Jamal Agnew in the slot.
The NFL is all about taking advantage of opportunity. Those veteran players sitting out or working back from injury likely don’t have to worry about their starting spots being taken, but for the players trying to earn backup roles or roster spots, getting the early reps this spring certainly helps in that regard.
- Tight ends expected to get significant use in Darrell Bevell’s offense
The Lions ran a goal line drill against the defense using just tight ends during Tuesday’s practice. I can’t say I’ve ever seen that before. I view that as an indication that the position will have some prominence in the new scheme. (Cool, put some muscle out there and overpower their asses)
Rookie T.J. Hockenson made a number of terrific plays in the open period and looks the part of a first-round pick. Jesse James has a huge frame, and showed some good athleticism for a player his size (6-7, 261). I expect to continue to see a lot of use from the position.
- Danny Amendola could end up being a security blanket for Matthew Stafford
Watching Amendola on Tuesday, he hasn’t lost a step at age 33 and is really crafty working the interior. He has a knack for separating from defenders and finding the open spots. He and Stafford hooked up a number of times. (Good to see)
If that continues, I can see some real trust forming between those two, with Amendola getting a chance to be a security-blanket-type receiver for Stafford in the middle, much like Golden Tate was for many years.
- Frank Ragnow looks the part at center
Ragnow dominated the position in college at Arkansas, earning the second highest grade among interior offensive linemen from Pro Football Focus coming out of school behind only Notre Dame’s Quenton Nelson. He didn’t allow a sack in 1,242 pass-blocking snaps at center in college.
Ragnow would be the first to admit that he had an up and down rookie campaign at guard. He struggled at times against some of the league’s really explosive defensive tackles.
Whether the position move is permanent or part of a plan to develop some versatility up front, Ragnow does like being back in the middle.
“The transition to left guard was a little more difficult because I hadn’t played it before,” he said. “I’ve played center before, so I guess there’s some familiarity there. It’s smoother.”
Ragnow said he likes making the calls and leading the unit, and looked like a natural there on Tuesday.
(Maybe the OL gets better just from better usage)
- Five players looking to return punts
Jamal Agnew was an All-Pro punt returner two years ago as a rookie. He’s electric with the ball in his hands in open space. He’s still the favorite to win punt-return duties in the fall, but things can always get tricky when talking about the 46-man roster. Teams like options.
Also returning punts Tuesday was wide receiver Danny Amendola, who has a career 9.5-yard average per return on 185 returns.
Wide receiver Tommylee Lewis was also back there. He has a career 9.3-yard average per return.
Wide receivers Brandon Powell and Tom Kennedy were also part of the five-man contingent returning punts in the open OTA practice.
(I don’t want Amendola back there returning punts. Was Ty Johnson involved? Sounds like something right up his alley.)
I’ve done a little work on the “rushing” idea. I disagree that we didn’t build an offense around him. We totally did and that might have been the mistake. We robbed Peter (run game) to pay Paul (pass game).
First we were also pretty much last in rushing attempts, or near the bottom of the league. (I like to look at attempts for context with every stat) You can’t have good “rushing” stats if you don’t “rush”. We had a substitute, the short pass behind the LOS, that I would say should be put into its own category. (Actually, if you look at air yards and RAC stats, you can see how much was passing and how much was rushing. Stafford has had years with surprisingly low levels of air yards. You’d think a pocket passer would be whipping it downfield, but if you intersect the lack of rush attempts with pass attempts behind the LOS, you’ll find out where the “run game” went.
We had to and/or we intended to. Our OL was built for pass pro and we took a bunch of RBs with great hands but who weren’t all that big. Much more on petite side of backs. Due to that strategy, we were in shotgun a lot. Helps the pass stats, hurts the run stats. The downside of petite backs is that they get hurt more easily. Unless you’re Barry, who never got hit cause he was a speedy little greased pig.
Anyway, I see more of a semantic distinction between a “run” and a “short pass to RB behind the LOS designed for YAC”…
So Stafford gets a lot of credit for pass yards that are essentially runs, he gets to be in shotgun a lot (which helps him (see the field, no backing up) and hurts the run game (pass pro, limited selection of plays from that formation). That’s all fine, but then when you use the stat of a “poor run game” as an excuse, I cry foul.
I’d argue that we’ve been trying to build the offense around him the whole time he was here.
His completion percentage went up in year 7 because that’s when dink/dunk Caldwell took over. Linehan’s system put up more points than Caldwell. Only difference is that Caldwell inherited one hell of a defense. So he could afford to choke back on the offense.
There are a ton of QBs who fit this description but I don’t think Aaron Rodgers is good example. He’s not Russell Wilson because virtually no QB in the history of the game is Russell. You can have a jailbreak at the line and Russell can still turn that into a big play. Tom Brady gets a lot of credit for being able to adjust in the pocket but Rodgers is on another level than Brady. Rodgers is constantly adjusting to small breakdowns in his pass protection to make plays downfield. Brady, as good as he is, can’t do it the way Rodgers does it. The main adjustment for Brady is they go to the quick passing game. With Rodgers they keep pushing the ball downfield and just trust that Aaron will buy enough time to make the play work. Watch Aaron move behind that line, then watch his backup QBs come in behind the same line. Its night and day.
The way he manipulates the pocket is genius level at times. It reminds me of a guy named Justin that I used to play basketball with. I consider myself a really good point guard and passer (for pickup basketball) but in all my years of watching other guys on the court I’d never really seen another guy like him…even when I was playing with/against college players. He had a genius level understanding of angles and how to manipulate his positioning on the court to move in just the right way to open up passing angles that left me in awe. And when someone is that good, they make it look easy. Their slight move up, left, right, back…whatever…puts them in a prime position to make a play where as most other people would be in trouble.
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Well, Angry, we had Megatron first, so…
I know we had CJ. I tend to oppose the overspending on skill positions while skimping on the line.
I argued against taking him. I wanted Joe Thomas.
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