I keep hearing about how Travon Walker is great at run stopping and Kavon Thibodeaux isn’t very good at it. Is that group think or does PFF expose that theory?
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I thought Thibbs looked good against the run. I also thought Walker looked good against the run so those numbers are surprising on Walkers end.
Does PFF have some sort of calculation to adjust for the fact that the SEC is a much more physical conference in the run game than the Pac-12???
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Wow Walker really stands out on that list… i know it is the SEC but damn… worst PRWR and tied for 3rd worst run stop rate
When you make up stats, you can show whatever you want. Here is one that has Walker above Thibs.
Where does it show Walker above Thibodeaux? Also, what do you mean make up stats? There is probably some error in regards to judgement but I don’t see them as biased.
I think run stopping ability is very difficult to quantify as a direct stat. Sometimes, your sealing off the edge to give your linebackers flowing to the ball clean tackling lanes. Disrupting the play design that way provides a run stop, but that’s not going to show up on the stat sheet as such. Sometimes it’s sniffing out a screen, but that’s not part of the calculation either.
So much goes into this that doesn’t make it to paper. You can have a guy that disengages from setting the edge, at the expense of the defensive design, and they might be successful a few times and bump the percentage up, but it won’t show the number of times they missed and the defense gets gashed for 5-7 yards because they didn’t stay home and their linebackers were left to wade through the trash.
Bottom line, the film has to back up the statistics. I do think you’re right about Thibodaux, I believe the negative perception of his personality is swinging the pendulum towards people embellishing his abilities at the cost of ignoring the talent. I just don’t see him, or the staff, being a good marriage. However, with Campbell being a disciple of Parcells, who was no stranger to managing personalities (Lawrence Taylor, Terrell Owens) and getting the best out of them, might be viewed as part of the job with those concerns being over emphasized.
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From the article:
It didn’t stop as a pass rusher for Wright either, as he more than held his own against the run as well. Of the big names listed, Wright posted the highest run disruption rate at 18.7%. Hutchinson posted a run disruption percentage of 17.9%, Thibodeaux’s was 11.4%, and Walker’s was 12.9%.
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Wow! Check out Alex Wright and Josh Pascal!
Very good point. And since PFF doesn’t know the defensive play calls, they are essentially giving an educated guess on most plays.
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I mean on their podcast, the PFF guys regularly talk about how good Walker is as a run defender, so I think it’s safe to say take those numbers with a grain of salt. It’s like everything else in Walker’s resume, he was asked to do a specific thing, which a lot of time included hold the edge and let others make plays. He regularly stonewalled multiple pulling guards/tackles/fullbacks to allow one of his great LB teammates to knife in and make the play, those are all over his tape.
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what about the ability to Pass Rush?
A couple of higher end statistics to consider in that regard are QB Pressures and Sack to Pressure Ratio as a %. It’s one thing to get in the zip code, it’s quite another to seal the deal. Typically, anyone over 15% is worth at least taking a look at.
This is against the qualifier of looking within the scope of what the defender is regularly tasked with in the defensive scheme. That’s one of the things that makes guys like Walker so difficult to get a good read on, the tools are there, but he wasn’t asked to pin his ears back very often in the Georgia scheme. Conversely, schemes that promote certain individuals on pass rush are what get you a guy like Andre Wadsworth.
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PFF doesn’t even try to give an educated guess as far as assignment. That makes their scores unique, but they always need to be taken into context. They judge the result of the play, but give a ton of credit if the player is a direct part of the result. So when Thibs runs himself out of position and gets washed down the line and the runner runs to the vacated space…that’s not a huge knock on Thibs. Its viewed much the same as Walker setting the edge correctly and the runner having to try to dive inside a pile of bodies for no gain. Neither guy made or missed the tackle. So when Thibs uses that same aggressiveness and ability to play out of position to dart in and make a solo tackle on the runner, he gets a ton of credit for that. Walker staying true to the scheme and being a part of a gang tackle or allowing another defender to go in and make the tackle wouldn’t grade that well on the PFF scale.
I guess comparing it to basketball, a guy who gets a few dunks and blocked shots per game would grade higher than a better all around player who is sound on both ends of the court. PFF wouldn’t care if he got the blocked shot because he left his man, or that he spends so much energy trying to crash down and blocked shots he can’t close out on 3 pointers like he’s supposed to.
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Walkers the most overrated player in this draft. He’s not great at rushing the passer and he’s not great in run defense ,it’s all over the tape that he can’t win one on ones. But he was great in the underwear games.
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That’s actually not what the tape says.
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Yeah but he has a high RAS score and blew up the underwear Olympics.
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What tape you watching ? Because there many reports out now about his his inability to win one on one.
Please tell us what the tape says about a guy who had 5.5 sacks on a team loaded with talent. I want to see the logic that a guy who didn’t produce on a team with 19 five star recruits is going to come to the NFL and be a beast when he is the focal point of the Defense. Cool he is athletic and lit it up in non football drills but he is fools gold if you think he is all of a sudden become a game wrecker at the next level.
Same with the big ten. Huge difference stopping the run games of Wisconsin and Alabama vs Arizona and usc. Although Utah is a very physical team.
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