I disagree. I do not think he excelled at any of them. If anything. Moving him around caused him to be less polished in his game. His game has many holes in it.
No it’s an opinion… I do like his upside but the kid is not plug and play at LBer or at S. He’s going to have struggles.
As for stats - they are skewed by Simmons snap counts and the number of games he played. Actually compare him objectively to other LBers.
Simmons played in 44 games. This skews his numbers.
He had 238 tackles. = 5.4 a game
He had 11 sacks = 1 sack in every 4 games.
He had 4 INT’s = 1 for every 11 games.
Willie Gay played in 28 games.
He had 99 tackles = 3.6 a game
He had 6 sacks = 1 every 4.6 games.
He had 3 INT’s = 1 every 9 games.
These two had similar combine numbers too Simmons is a top 10 pick and most have Gay going round 3. Is the gap really that big?
Now lefts compare Simmons to another 1st round grade LBer in Murray.
Murray played in 40 games. 4 fewer than Simmons.
He had 325 tackles = 8.1 a game.
He had 9.5 sacks = 1 every 4.2 games.
He had zero INT’s.
See what I mean by stats.
I think if you look at the stats and compare Simmons you will start to see he’s not nearly the playmaker that mocks and some fans are making him out to be.
Then watch the film.
However please don’t get me wrong. I do like Simmons. I just don’t think he’s deserving of all the hype. I like his tackling, range, and ability to cover. But I recognize that he is Raw and will need time to develop. Maybe not as raw as Willie Gay but he’s not a polished LBer like Bush was last year either. Bush was far more NFL ready and he went in the teens last year. People want us to take Simmons at 3OA and I just think he’s not worthy. Now if we trade down twice to say 10 or later and get him then I’d be happy with that.
I agree 100% … Simmons versatility and how he was used hurt him . No direct fit .
The other thing here is people want to hype of the value of his versatility and how he was used…'You can use him anywhere and they did …He’s Great! A real tool he can do it all"
When the same can be applied and how I see it is …
"We used him everywhere we did, because he did not fit in one spot all the time…he was great for certain situations at LB and a liability at other times at LB so we moved him to Safety as he was great there in some spots and a liability at other times… we liked keeping his speed on the field…but we had to scheme his production by moving him around
That cant be though …It’s because he is so great they move him …I don’t see it that way
again Air , you have your opinion…I’ve mine. There is a reason Simmons won the Butkus Award for the nation’s top linebacker in 2019. but I guess he’s not good enough to start for The Lions defense.
that MUST mean so will be Simmons–right? each one is a different person with different skill sets, abilities, and things…Simmons has to get his chance to play…IF it’s the same results ??? you were right . but that hasn’t came to pass ‘yet’.
And what is that reason? And what does that mean in regards to his ability as a pros? People win college awards all the time, many of them don’t pan out in the pros or are even drafted early because scouts know what they did in college won’t translate.
So what is the skill set that Simmons brings to the table that will make him a good pro? You can’t say he wont the Butkus and make that the reason he will be a good LB here.
And we are talking about spending a top 5 draft pick on the guy, we don’t know until we try is not a good reason to draft a player that high.
BW, while your question is a warranted one, it’s been discussed here on the Den forums for many weeks now. Some don’t believe he has 1 skill set that is elite with the likeness of a CY for example. Some believe that Simmons does.
So let’s be honest. These skill sets have been mentioned over and over in other threads. We can all confirm this. Some don’t believe that they are elite, for one reason or another. Some do.
But will explaining it again change your mind in Simmons? Simply put, no. There are just as many facts to show why one would select him, as there are reasons for not selecting him. It’s just how one looks at it themselves.
I wasn’t on the Simmons train up till 1 week ago. I get the argument why you shouldn’t target him.
No Cub that’s not what I meant . The point was Air gave his many reasons, as did I, as the people who are in the Simmons is Elite crowd .
You pointing out he is the Butkus Award winner does not point to Simmons being a good Pro or Elite … it’s an award that many past LB’s who amounted to nothing at the NFL level also won.
Just as I know winning the award does not have any bearing on him failing as a Pro .
NY , I did not say anything about Simmons being “elite” I said "we can find use for him in our defense , which was pathetic in 2019. I said he was one of the top defensive players in college . OUR defense flat sucked, and then I questioned why in the hell Simmon’s can’t play here
to try and better our pathetic defense. each and every NFL player there ever was got their shot and was judged based off their play. nobody can even use “elite” until he plays because NFL fans need to see what Isiah Simmons does or doesn’t @#$! do by himself…you can’t say he’s bad , he sucks , he’s serviceable at best , he’s decent , he’s good , he’s great, or elite until he plays in the NFL.
as far as who likes him verses who doesn’t?? I don’t give a damn, I like Simmon’s . If others don’t I’m not losing sleep over it.
Simmons was used all over the field because of his versatility, not because he didn’t fit any one position…I hope that’s not what some of you were saying.
There’s a lot of 225LB linebackers in college.
His best fit is LB, probably WLB where he can run and chase plays down…but as the OP of this thread suggests, just because he’s playing OLB doesn’t mean you can’t have him do other things like blitz a CB or Safety and switch-up Simmons to cover their guy.
This is the kind of versatility that people are talking about, not that he’s going to play Safety one play and DE the next.
I find myself in the Air and NYL camp. Simmons is not a candidate for the Lions in my opinion. I have seen too many guys that are fits in the modern NFL. I would not draft Simmons in the top ten in any draft. If people love him I get ya’, I am not saying you are wrong and I am not trying to change your opinion.
To me the facts are he is smaller for a LBer, he isn’t a CB or safety (yep, he played there but I would not draft him to play those positions) and in a jack of all trades master of none situation (as mentioned by Air and NYL) I believe he will not be a playmaker in the NFL. IF he goes to the right team, coaches and system yes I believe he can be really good. But that system isn’t here and I wonder where he might fit.
If you love him awesome. But seeing his flaws and wondering where he will play is a legit concern. I am never in favor of drafting a guy high and then expecting them to change their game, position or body style. If you draft Simmons and don’t use him like he was used in college that doesn’t make any sense to me at all. Let Simmons be Simmons or don’t draft him. No way the Lions would use Simmons correctly here. That just isn’t the way Patricia uses LBers and Patricia knows how to get serious production out of guys like Jamie Collins and even Kyle Van Noy.
I actually think he’s got one of the highest bust factors. If you don’t use him right (and I think over 50% of coaches wouldn’t), he’s gonna disappoint.
I also think no matter what he’s gonna struggle like crazy as a rookie, so for all of you wanting an instant impact guy, Simmons isn’t it.
If Patricia is truly a defensive guru, then he should be able to figure out how to use the best athletes in his defense. Simmons is just that. Someone you should have no problem figuring out a spot for.
I’m kind of tired of hearing about Patriica’s “system” that requires a specific type of player, when the fact is, his defenses have been hot trash for years now, going back to the Pats.
We need players, not puzzle pieces. Simmons is a player with an elite skill set. Okudah simply fills a void.
Simmons is not just jack of all trades. He excelled at every position.
I think Simmons and Collins would be a lethal combination. Both are great in pass coverage and can blitz. Middle of the field would be on lockdown.
In many ways i think are pass defense would be better with Simmons than Okudah. Trufant on the #1wr. Saftey help on #2wr. Simmons and Collins shuting down the middle of the field.
He did not excel at every position, that’s the thing. He had his strengths (coverage, blitzing), but he struggled mightily taking on blocks. Like, there were plenty of times I saw him get entirely washed out of the play. That’s one of the main things a linebacker has to do in most systems, and in ours it’s doubly important. He also gets terribly lost trying to fill in the run game… he shoots the wrong gaps, he overruns the play or just misdiagnoses it entirely. If you plug him as a linebacker into the middle of your defense, you’re doing him and your own team a disservice.
That’s not to say that he doesn’t do some things at an elite level, and used as a chase linebacker in a 4-3 (his best position IMO) I think he could be a star. But we don’t have a chase linebacker (well we do and he hardly plays - Reeves-Maybin), our linebackers HAVE to be able to take on blocks. So for us he’d be a safety, and not only do we not need a safety, but especially not with a top 10 pick.
