The Panthers mismanagement continues

So you balk at extending Burns at 28m and trade him for peanuts and then you turn around and give a very good but not dominant (IMO) NT &24m per. :flushed:

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Idk, I disagree here a bit. Brown is very dominant against the run.

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Alim and his agent right now be like…

oh boy dunk GIF

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Elite run defender last year.

I’ll always be interested in following Brown’s career. I wanted him as the #3 pick in 2020 over Okudah.

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As mostly a NT he should be good against the run. It’s the guys who offer both run-stuffing AND pressure that typically get paid in this bracket. He did register career highs in pass-rush-win-rate and pressures this year, so there could be some ceiling to be found. But it was coming from a pretty low bar too.

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I’m a big fan of nose tackles in general and how they can shape/change a defense. But in the modern NFL if you can’t somewhat consistently collapse the pocket and pressure the QB, you’re not worth THAT much money.

For the Panthers though it doesn’t really matter. Their team sucks and they aren’t going to have to pay anyone insane amounts of money anytime soon, so might as well take care of one of their own.

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Ya just looked it up. Only 2 sacks but 15 QB hits is actually very good for a nose tackle. In comparison Reader had 7 qb hits.

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Fair enough. I guess what I was getting at is that he’s more so in that Reader/Stewart class of NT vs. Dexter Lawrence.

$24m for that type of player at that position I simply find flabbergasting.

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Can get away with it when the rest of that DLine is more Journeyman players

but tbf

Clowney, Brown, Robinson, Wonnum is not a terrible front four by anymeans, and they can have that for two years while they rebuild it.

This draft i see offense mainly from Panthers (Unless players drop to 33), with defense being bigger next year with how both classes are slated right now

But within the framework of selling off Burns for peanuts bc you don’t want to pay him 28m per to then come back and reset the Nose Tackle market?

Seems crazy to me. Although Morgan as a former MLB may value the position more than most :man_shrugging:

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Derrick Brown is a top notch player on a bad team. He is almost like a high motor version of Shaun Rogers. He is not just a space eater. He had over 100 tackles last season, which is insane. Some sources are saying it is the most tackles from a defensive lineman in history. He is a big, powerful man. So he needs to be double teamed whether it is a run or a pass. If he is single blocked in the run game he makes the tackle. If he is single blocked in the pass game he puts the blocker in the QBs lap. And what’s strange to see is his hustle. One of the ways he got to 100+ tackles is because he hustled downfield to track guys down. There is a play against the Falcons where Bijan Robinson caught the ball at the 20 on 3rd and 22, and Derrick Brown made the tackle downfield at the 38-40 yard line.

Derrick is a force multiplier. He is the kind of guy that a team should want to resign and build around, even if it is for more money than other people think he is worth. Some of the other guys making $20M+ are not as good as Derrick Brown.

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So in your opinion Derrick Brown at 24m per is a good contract?

What happened to your “beware the spike year right before FA” stance? (Which I agree with btw)

Brown was straight up bad his first two years and average his 3rd, despite playing every game. Then he put it all together this past season. To me that is something to be wary of.

Derrick Brown is one of the best DTs in football, and he is a force multiplier. Whatever that means to you in terms of dollars, that’s what he is. From what I have seen so far in the thread, people incorrectly think he is just a big space eater. He is much more than that. My Lions comparison is Shaun Rogers with a high motor. I also can use a name like Haloti Ngata.

Daron Payne for $22.5M/year was a bad contract and everyone could see it from a mile away. Quinnen Williams for $24M/year was a bad contract. This is different. Derrick Brown is the real deal and top 5 talent at the position.

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See I don’t see that at all when I watch Derrick Brown play. I see D.J. Reader. And that’s a terrific player. And yes those types of ants are force multipliers. But they went and paid IMO a 17/18m player 24m per after. And they did so after balking at the asking price of their other defensive star that both plays a more premium position and a position that typically sees an elevation of play after first contracts.

I do respect your opinion I just happen to think this is a bad allocation of resources by a struggling franchise.

You are comparing a 30 to 40 tackle player to a 100+ tackle player. Brown will probably “settle in” around 70-80 tackles next season. That is significantly more than Reader has ever had in a season. DJ eats blocks but he doesn’t make the play. Brown eats block and makes plays.

Brian Burns is a talented player. But he is close to $30M/year for 8 sacks. Derrick Brown is the guy that teams choose to double team, which frees up Brian Burns for 1 on 1’s…not the other way around. If you look at Brian Burns highlights, spend some time focusing on big #95 and how the attention he garnered “changed the math.” There are a ton of plays that Derrick Brown was a part of. I grabbed this off of a Brian Burns highlight video. This play was set up and blocked nicely by the Falcons EXCEPT for how Derrick Brown single handedly killed the play. Derrick was on the backside of the intended run lane. Derrick bullied the guard until he was standing in the intended run lane. The rest of the line was blown off the ball and the lane should have been there for the back. Instead, the runningback had to change course and reverse where he was going. That is how this ended up on Brian Burn’s highlight film. He was #53 on the back side and the cutback ended up in his arms. The green arrow is where the play was designed to go. Derrick Brown made sure it didn’t get there. On passing downs he commands double teams and pushes the pocket. That opens up single blocking for other pass rushers and limits escape angles for QBs.

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Fine. You can use Grover Stewart if you want to fixate on high tackle numbers. I think there are also some game flow and scheme issues at play as well that play into the tackle differentiation.

As for Burns, I’m not even the biggest fan of the players I’m fine with the idea that Brown is a better player relative to his position than Brian Burns is. But Burns is one year removed from a 12.5 sack season and pass rushers get paid.

And typically it’s the NTs that bring unusual pass rush production that get the mega deals.

The highest paid DT that’s never had more than 5 sacks is Davin Tomlinson at under 15m per. 24m per to me just seems incredibly rich for that type of player that Brown is.

Reason why im worried about the non contract extension

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I absolutely agree with this take. They have whathisface on a rookie contract, no 1st round pick, and have to overpay every free agent. They do have an obligation to spend 90% of their salary cap, so they might as well take care of one of their own and sprinkle a little chaos into the value of the position across the league in the process.

That is all true but IMO Burns is far more likely to be an in demand trade asset even at his larger contract value. If he has a good year he’d likely get a 1st round pick next year as his contract would become $23m per to the acquiring team. At least I think he could. There is no scenario in which Brown would generate that level of trade interest especially at this contract value.

Clearly Morgan is all about run the ball and stop the run. No shame in that. I just personally don’t understand their resource allocation.

Derrick Brown, Robert Hunt and Damien Lewis have been signed for a combined 203m dollars. That does not strike me as the way to get to the promised land :man_shrugging: