Where Does This Team Stand?

I know most of us are still hoping for a minor miracle and for us to somehow slip into the playoffs with the 7th seed. I am too, but it got me thinking about how good this team can be in 2023. Dan Campbell has erased any early season doubts in my mind and I 100% believe he is the right guy for the job. An unpopular opinion I have that AG has also done enough for me to want him he keep his job in 2023. This defense still has MAJOR flows, but these young guys are continuing to get better and impress. It has got to be tough to coach a defense with so much youth. I think with another off-season, AG would have no excuses in 2023, but this defense is lacking in a lot of areas this year.

With all that said, one thing was painfully clear to me today. We need to find our QB this off-season because Jared Goff isn’t it. Goff actually played a pretty decent game today. Nothing special, but he certainly was not the reason we lost. Still, when we got the ball back with under 3 minutes left, down 3, I didn’t feel like we were going to win. I really hoped we would win, but I was very skeptical. Goff made some plays to at least get us in position to tie the game. In the end though, When Josh Allen had the ball with just over 20 seconds I knew he would do what was needed to get them in FG range to win. Josh Allen is the main reason the Bills won today.

Not trying to make this a bash Goff thread, but it is clear Goff is not the guy. He is a solid QB that is probably better than 50% of the 32 starting QBs in the league. Problem is I dont ever see him being in the top 33%.

I also believe this defense is closer than what most of us think. Below are all the players on this defense that can play key roles in this defense in 2023 (I believe we re-sign Elliot, Buggs, Board and Cominsky).

Hutchinson (Budding Superstar)
Alim McNeil (Solid Starter With Upside)
Isaiah Bugss (Good Leader, Solid Depth)
Josh Pascal (Potential Starter With Upside)
John Cominsky (Very Good Role Player)
Julian Okwara (Very Good Role Player)
Romeo Okwara (Solid Starter If Healthy)
James Houston (A Lot of Potential)
Levi Onwuzurike (Health?)
Malcolm Rodriguez (Solid Starter)
Derrick Barnes (Very Good Role Player With Upside)
Chris Board (Solid Cover Backer, Elite ST Player)
Jeff Okudah (Solid Starter With Elite Upside)
Jerry Jacobs (Very Good Depth With Starter Potential)
Chase Lucas (Scrappy, Future Nickel?)
THE BALL HAWK (Solid Starter With Elite Upside)
Tracy Walker (Health? Elite Leader, Solid Starter)
Deshon Elliot (Capable Starter, Excellent Depth)
Ifeatu Melifonwu (Unknown Potential, High End Physical Traits)

There is a lot of youth on that list who are still developing. I see an elite DT, stud LBer, and a starting caliber outside CB and nickel as our biggest needs. I would add an edge rusher as well if Romeo doesn’t look right to close this year. If we moved on from Goff, we would get even more draft capital and cap space. Even if we only got an extra 2nd for Goff, that would give us 2 firsts, three seconds, and a 3rd. Even if we got our QB with the Rams pick, there would be more then enough to fill the holes on defense. Go out and get an outside CB like James Bradberry in FA. Maybe make a run at a LBer like Tremaine Edmunds. Then in the draft you could grab your DT with our 1st, a nickelback in the 2nd, and still have a 2nd and 3rd for a TE/G/RB/WR/LB’eror whatever we needed.

I know this is a bit of a rant, but I see a lot of talent on this team and potential for a bright future. Goff is not the leader this team needs.

6 Likes

I don’t disagree about Goff and I trust Holmes to not draft a QB just to draft a QB. If the guy is there and is the right fit, you take him however I am in the build the defense and stack the roster with talent and Goff can be enough to make a run in the playoffs next year.

4 Likes

4-7

6 Likes

Oh, I don’t think they’re a total write off.
I think they are a team on the brink, going through growing pains.
I like this team. I’d really like it if we could get them healthy. They’d be formidable!
Not a drop of Koolaid. I swear.

4 Likes

Allen gets Diggs

Goff got Chark (tho it could be argued St Brown may have been open, that wasn’t the design)

Ain’t no nail yet ladies

2 Likes

While i agree we are likely going to miss the playoffs, i will say that one good thing is that we have tie breaker over nyg and was, if we can get to 9-8 we have a decent shot of being the 7th seed. Nyg and washington play eachother twice, nyg also plays Philadelphia twice, minnesota and Indianapolis. They very well could crash and go 2-4 with that schedule to close at 9-8. Washington with two against nyg, 1 against dallas, falcons, 49ers, and browns (maybe with deshaun)… they would need to go 3-3 to get to 9-8. If the lions win out they have a decent likelihood they are in based on the head to head, if they lose one possibly still make it based on the schedule of those in the chase with them, lose two and it becomes highly unlikely. With all that said, today didnt change much and honestly unless the wheels just completely fall off and dan loses the locker room i dont believe that this season can have a bad ending, so here is to just enjoying the ride.

3 Likes

A lot of work i don’t agree with some of it but its your opinion.

You expect to take a young team in the third year of lets call it rebuild an put a rookie QB who you hope can do the job. Now lets look at the rookies from past couple of drafts.

Bears second year an we are ahead of them an he is still a major question mark.
The 49rs QB he has been injured but still major question mark
Th Jets QB was benched an really has not shown that great.
The QB’s from last draft what one has shown even a little being a future starter better than Goff?
I would say none.
2021 only Trevor Lawrence an he was like a sure thing an even he has questions.
2020 was a good year but we are threes to see 3 of them claim the job.

Now you want to get rid of a QB for say a second rd pick an wait at very best 3 years to see if you picked the right one?

During that time the young players you listed will be 3 years older many will be looking at big contracts if they are any good. All this happens while we wait to see if we( you) made the right pick.

Its easy to make these lists. Its harder to make it come true.
I am not against looking for a young QB . I am against your idea of throwing baby out with bath water.
James Bradberry will be 30 years old at start of the 2023 season . He will also want a big contract an will want to sign that big deal with a contender .
Signing him would be going right back into cap hell that we just got out of past two seasons.

Again i am not against signing some experience. But I want the players to be playing like the contract you will have to give them in 3 years when an if we pick the right rookie QB.

Jamel Dean CB 26 years old 4 year vet just example check him out experienced an young an plays as starter. Bradberry will get twice as much as this CB. Just example get quality young with experience who will be no older than 30 when your drafted QB might be ready.

Why not try an sign Payne the DT from Washington an draft a CB with are first pick CB’s like WRs are a major cap hit. Better to draft them an sign one to that big deal who plays for Lions an you know him. Again example an what I would like to see them do.

5 Likes

I know what the OP said and I agree with much of what you said, but drafting a QB doesn’t mean we have to launch Goff this year. Give a rookie some snaps, but make him sit til he’s ready. We have 4 picks in the top 60 (QB, CB, DT, DE/LB), sign a S and LB in FA, with bulk of their money coming in years 2-4 - when Goff is gone.

I pretty much disagree with every major point he makes.
Too cut and dry. No depth to his analysis with a TON of bypassing on a ton of circumstances.
McDermot and Allen outclassed Campbell and Goff.

The biggest reason we were in this game is beaus we WON the fist fight portion of the game. Translation → Campbell outreached them in that area, and it matters…A LOT!
Way more going on than Coaches and QBs, and it feels like a very simple-minded view that ignores a ton.

Buffalo had better WR, QB, OL today.
Buffalo had better LB, DL, CBs today.

So how do you explain them losing with less than 2 minutes to go?

I’ll tell you!
2 Reasons

  1. CAMBELL
  2. Good luck BABY!

Lions are gonna be AWESOME next year, and much better even this season.

Get our entire OL back…WITH JaMoss next game. hahhahahahahahaaha!

2 Likes

It was always a 3 year plan and I think they are in fine shape to make a serious run at a division title and at the very least a playoff spot next year!!!

These are all part of the growing pains most shitty teams go through before turning the corner.

3 Likes

That entire post is basically the mindset most should have this offseason
If they draft a QB, great— obviously they like the guy
If they don’t, great — obviously nobody turned the needle for them

This is a GRITTY team
They will draft more guys that fit their profile
They are not going to take more talented players over guys who have the same mindset they’re building for this team
FA as well — they will only spend big $ if the guy will fit into their culture and be productive throughout the life of the contract

The days of picking up “big names” to appease the masses are over.

We are witnessing team building— the right way — with this group

Enjoy the ride!!

And yeah, let’s stop the simple Goff bashing
He’s “good enough”
He’s above average
They’re not going to roll the dice on a rookie unless they think he’s a slam dunk

3 Likes

I like to see this team have a strong December and get to 7-8 with 2 games left and at least have a mathematical shot at the play offs heading into January.

Giants have a tough schedule with 4 divisional games and the vikes on the road and will do well to get more than 9 wins on the year.

Seahawks have the rams twice and panthers to get them to 9 wins but also have the 49ers and chiefs

Commanders have the giants twice but a tricky enough schedule.

9 wins might be enough. Would be nice to hit January and not be out of the race anyway

2 Likes

Necessary.

32nd in points allowed at a whopping 28.2 per game
32nd in yards allowed with 414.8 per game
28th in passing yards allowed with 259.9 per game
31st in rushing yards allowed with 154.6 per game

The only area which the Lions defense is average (and it’s a co-dependent stat with the offense), is giveaway/takeaway ratio. The Lions are at zero.

I’m in that same boat.

And if the Rams keep losing, as they seem destined to, they’re going to have a legitimate choice.

Lions were playing 5th and 6th string OGs, both of whom have little experience.

Before this season, Skipper hadn’t played OG since he was a freshman at Arkansas–he’s been an OT his entire time in the NFL.

In college, Kayode Awosika was an OT all 3 years in college, an undrafted free agent in 2021, who has converted to OG in the pros. Prior to the Buffalo game, Awosika had 8 snaps on offense in his entire NFL career.

Goff simply didn’t have a lot of time to throw because the interior OL were like sieve.

To reinforce the point, most QBs aren’t going to be good when the OL is down to 5th and 6th string guys. Just look at what has happened with the Rams this year. Stafford isn’t the same player he was last season when he matched a career high 41 TDs. That’s largely attributable to the OL issues.

1 Like

This isn’t a one game sample with Goff. We have been in a lot of games late in the 4th quarter these past two seasons. How many has Goff won for us? I get the injuries. Once we get healthier I’m sure Goff will improve. With that said we are still limited with Goff. So you think we can use Jameson to his full potential with Goff?

Now I’m not saying we have to draft a QB no matter what. If this front office doesn’t believe any of these guy are true franchise QBs or don’t have a shot at the guy they want (Bryce Young), then I’m fine with them passing. The longer we wait on getting a franchise QB the further we push our window to compete. I bet if we build around Goff In 2023, we could probably win the division. Maybe even a playoff game. It would take a top 3 NFL roster with Goff to even have a chance of doing much more.

I really like Jamel Dean as well. Your evaluation is way off though. Dean is the #1 free agent CB and a top 10 FA overall.

Dean is gonna get paid close to JC Jackson money, IMO. I see 4 years 60mil. Bradberry has performed at a high level on three separate teams. He is the type of veteran that can stabilize this CB room. He is coming off signing a 1 year 7.25mil deal for this season. He has a earned a multi year deal for sure. 3 years 30mil would likely do the trick, IMO.

Payne would be a Trey Flowers type of disaster if we signed him, IMO. He has been thoroughly mediocre (slightly above average starter). For his entire career. He is turning it on in a contract year, but he’s also gonna command 18mil+ AAV. He is going to go back to being mediocre and we will be stuck with a 8-10mil AAV player who’s being paid like a 18mil AAV player.

Payne is a hard pass for me and I would be willing to bet whoever signs him regrets it in a couple seasons.

G, as yesterday pointed out, is a top need and is a short supply on your list.

1st rd CB and G
2nd rd CB and LB

I think how Romeo plays these last 6 games is going to determine what kind of approach we take to FA. I think Vaitai and Brockers are gone regardless, but whether or not Okwara gets cut for cap savings will be determined by how he finishes the season.

Honestly, I don’t really see the need to dish out big FA contracts outside of the secondary anymore, especially if we end up with Will Anderson or Jalen Carter in the draft because of the Rams.

2 Likes

If a team scores 25 points (should’ve been 28 given the missed chip shot FG), against one of the top teams in the NFL, you should win. Lions defense just wasn’t good enough, especially when it mattered most. That game was reminiscent of the losses to KC in 2019 where on 4th & 8, Mahomes scrambled for 15 yards on the GW drive and to the Ravens in 2021 4th & 19 at BAL 16
Jackson passes deep to S.Watkins for 36 yards to set up the winning FG from the Detroit 48. In both situations, and this past Thursday, the defense gave up big plays at the end to decide the game.

And, the team wasn’t losing because of the offense early in the season. Again, these stats tell the story:

32nd in points allowed at a whopping 28.2 per game
32nd in yards allowed with 414.8 per game
28th in passing yards allowed with 259.9 per game
31st in rushing yards allowed with 154.6 per game