Why I think D is improved or should be improved

This is why IMO are defense played so bad no excuse just facts . You have to also consider fact we lost are QB
This fact puts D on field a lot more. in 2019 who made most tackles last years was all top 3 Secondary
Top 12 6 secondary 4 LBs 2 DL an to be fair #13 is DL Now lets look in 2018 Top 3 LB DL Secondary
top 12 5 secondary 3 lbs 4 DL Hand was 13
I honestly believe it was the injuries an forced to play inexperienced DLman
In 2018 we had more balance just on tackles. After quick glance I think it messed with whole D sacks completions.

I find fans hard to understand that maybe an everything is always a hope about injuries we may have really improved are D
We will see but the numbers below with top 3 DLman an there production is really bad. Some from injury maybe some from sulking

Take a look at the production from the ones we added Danny Shelton…Nick Williams…Healthy Flowers, Trey …Hand, Da’Shawn
Plus the addition of Jamie Collins an i will not list the LBs or secondary add on’s

A’Shawn Robinson DL 13 games his numbers were about same for past years
32…8…1.5… 3 1-2 0

Damon Harrison DL 15 games his numbers down close to half
29 20 2.0 3 0-0 0

Mike Daniels DL 9 games 2 starts
6 4 1.0 2 0-0 0

We know Hand did nothing hurt all season
His rookie year 13 games so we lost any improvement
22 5 3 5 5 1

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No man, it’s not injuries. It’s really bad coaching and terrible personnel decisions by Quin. The team turned its back on Fat Pat during the Jets game. The defense was god awful since Patricia got here and all the players dislike him. He’s like the Second coming of Ron Prince. We will not get better until these clowns are cleaned out.

Ever wonder what the physique of all of these “fat this/fat that” people have?



fat has nothing to do with it , it’s the game winning experience…the amount of defensive knowledge AND experience a DC has, if you don’t have that experience or the knowledge already? the result will be bad. same with HC, OC, GM.

I honestly think they thought grabbing AS MANY New England players as they did AND brining Patricia aboard was just going to take right off and blossom…shit didn’t work.


I kinda think injuries do have a lot to do with performance on the field. Many of the DL guys just weren’t NFL-ready in September, after dealing with foot, knee, shoulder, and other things. Flowers caught up by October I thought, but Hand and Bryant never really got going, and neither did Daniels. Harrison talked about his body breaking down, maybe that was mental as much or more than physical. Somebody smarter than me will have to explain why that is on Quinn or the coaches.

So, they had to go to guys like Strong and Atkins, among others. Guys that weren’t exactly NFL caliber, at least they weren’t then. Maybe they’ll be better with a year’s experience and training in the off-season to get stronger. Maybe they get more out of Hand and Bryant, but frankly it won’t be hard for the DL to be better in 2020 than it was in 2019.

I also think Collins improves the LBs, and who knows, maybe Ragland does too. Sometimes a fresh start, new system, and different coaching makes a difference. It has been said that Davis was playing better over the last 6 games, maybe the light is finally coming on for him. Or maybe the Lions do a better job of maximizing his abilities this year, kinda like what NE did with Van Noy.

And I think the secondary got better too, even though they lost Slay. Adding Trufant, Okudah, and Harmon to go with Walker and Coleman is not a bad secondary. And maybe Oruwariye is going to take a step up in his game too.

The other thing is coaching, are the Lions going to be more versatile and unpredictable on defense or are they going to continue to rush 3 and drop back 8 too often? IMHO, the DL wasn’t good enough last year to put any pressure on the QB with only 3 guys, and frankly I don’t think they are this year either. The new DC needs to be allowed by Patricia to be more creative, with a lot of moving around and screwing with the other OL. Will they? I hope so.

And finally, if Stafford can stay healthy then the defense will get more time off the field and that is a good thing. Adding Swift and a hopefully resurgent Hockenson could make this offense pretty damn good. And I like what Bo Scarbrough brings to the party too, and maybe KeJo can last through the season this time with a reduced workload.


If you knew what you were talking about fans could maybe trust what you say but your the same one who shot his mouth off about Lions yesterday an looked like a fool so No what you post is waste of time

You know the post about Swift crying Only a Jerk says what you said


I think Snacks and Ashawn were terrible. Look at their pff scores, both were horrible.

The thing with Patricia’s scheme is it all starts right there in the middle. Everything else. Is based off that. Same personnel in 18 after acquiring snacks, (and a easier schedule) the D was decent. (Supposedly upgraded with Tavaii) I know it ranked 10th, but again schedule was a large part of it.

At any rate look how much better PFF scores were for both Ashawn and Snacks in 18 compared to last yr. (Sorry on phone or I’d post it for you) The scary part is last yr was Sheltons best yr, which is worse than 18 Snacks, better than 19 version of Snacks. Ashawn was like an 89 in 18 and a 56 in 19. I want to say Shelton avg to a 68 last yr, like a 65 run 72 pass. Sorry numbers are very close but off memory.

We are still hurting in the key part of this scheme. I know many still think, if not most, Patricia builds backwards. There is a lot of truth there, secondary is huge in this scheme. However it’s still built around your DTs, stopping the run and collapsing the interior pocket. Without it, the foundation if you will, the whole thing falls apart.

LBers don’t have lanes, struggle with run fits and topped of with poor coverage skills and no pressure, makes for the failures across all 3 levels. Throw in a HC that doesn’t like to blitz and 2 and 3 man fronts, it’s becomes the disaster we witnessed last yr.

I along with Speilman, Burkett and many posters here still think we need to upgrade at DT. Our late Rd picks didn’t move the needle. Penisini doesn’t collapse the pocket but holds his ground in the run, can he vs NFL lineman? Whether we do or not who knows.

I agree with Wise hoping Undlin changes things around. This is Patricia’s D, it’s his baby, I have a hard time believing he’s gonna let Undlin change it. Personally I hate his scheme with a passion and would love for Undlin to implement his D, as a DC. Would love to move to a aggressive 4-3 under like in 14 or an aggressive 3-4 like the Bears run with a Quinn, Hicks, Mack getting after it. Instead we play to give up ground on purpose, bend but don’t break.


You guys know that the HC is capable of changing his scheme from week to week. I know it was painful to watch last season, but how creative can you be when your roster is so limited?

If PP was back this year you would see greater variability, based in available talent alone.

I will say it again: the design of the D is to rush 4, but with the flexibility that the opposition doesn’t know which 4. When you see them rushing 3, it’s choosing the lesser of evils given the down and distance.

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But what happens when the inevitable injuries happen again this year? They have no depth whatsoever on the DL.

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Yep he’s capable, be it a Green Dog or what not, even went to a 4-3 look in NE due to injuries.

However, he always gives up yardage, bend but don’t break. I hate that philosophy always have always will.

Rather than have tweeners all over. I prefer a set scheme. I’ll take our 14 D over anything Patricia has ever done. I’ll take the Bears 3-4, Seattle’s 4-3 under, 49ers 4-3.

I don’t get the fascination with Patricia’s D. I didn’t like it in NE. NE D actually got better when he left. The fans cheered his exit. He got shredded by Atlanta until they took their foot off the gas and the Eagles shredded it as well. he got praised for holding KC to 34 WITHOUT Hill. I hate giving up yardage, keeping your D on the field getting tired. AZ. Especially to a good offense with a good QB.

Don’t get me wrong some people prefer that bend but don’t break philosophy regardless of the scheme. I get it, you like it I’m glad, it has to make it more enjoyable to watch. A person like me watching it, is aggravating to no end. I want to dominate the LOS, make the QB as uncomfortable as possible, and hit him as often as possible. You like playing percentages nothing wrong with that.

The glass is always half empty
The roster is still a work in progress
Quinn has already said they’ll look at the roster and assess / address depth needs
My expectation is that your question will no longer be valid, or at least less of a concern come end of August.

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This response has literally nothing to do with my comment. It’s like I said “what color are oranges” and you come back with “water is blue”.

Completely unrelated.

I sincerely hope so, but this is exactly what people on this board said last year at this time, and we all know how that turned out.

I’m definitely not going to argue that point, Greggy except to say that Hand is backed up better this year than he was last year. Daniels was an unhealthy backup to an injured Hand. We have Williams now. It’s better than Daniels (given his health) but you’re right to be concerned. You can look at last year’s team and say “hey, we drafted PJ Johnson, too, but how much did he help?” and that would be a valid concern. So, I’m not even putting a lot of stock in Penisini or Cornell. Penisini should provide a backup to Shelton. He should get the spot ahead of Atkins. Utlimately, this defense will rely heavily on Shelton, Hand and Williams. Should 1 of them go down to injury (especially Hand), we’re significantly limited on D.


Re: “it got better when left” business. There were ebbs and flows to their D over the years, again, based on personnel. He’s had some astounding defenses.

With that out of the way…
Bend-don’t-break is annoying. Prevent is annoying. Nobody “likes” that.
In a Patriots defense, pressure comes from multiple places:

  1. Disguised coverages that cause the QB to guess (or become uncomfortable).
  2. Disguised pressure that causes the OL and QB to guess which 4 are coming.
  3. A shrinking pocket especially up the middle that prevents the QB from becoming comfortable and stepping into his throws.
  4. A well-formed (yet shrinking) pocket that prevents the mobile QB’s from using their legs to escape.

Also, I like a defensive backfield that is attuned to playing tight man coverage. In all my years of being a Lions fan, I had seen only 1 game where our guys were able to play as sticky as Green Bay’s guys without getting called for it. This is becoming the norm (accepting our tight play against the receivers) because the refs see it week in and week out. GB plays the way they play because they conditioned the refs for it. We’re doing the same.

I understand liking an attacking D like we had with Schwartz. You want to know something though? He also was a bend-don’t-break defensive guy. His idea of bend was a little different in that they gambled on containment by making all 4 DL pin their ears back and become independent rushers. When the red zone came, they’d tighten up and play containment a little more. Remember he came in and said day 1, yardage is not a measurement of a defense, points are.

That’s just my opinion, rw. I reserve the right to be full of crap.


Well, the reality last year is that Quinn addressed depth at DL
Obviously he took a tainted player in Daniels
I was surprised he took that gamble only because it failed on such a grand scale
Because it was a bad experience last year, it does not follow that it will be bad this year
There is literally no correlation
Given all the crap that happened to the DL last year, we can’t suffer that level of bad fortune again can we?
Insert (lame) Lions joke
But logically the luck is most likely to be significantly better


Guarantee at least 1/2 of them are not exactly fitness models. LOL. Some of these MFrz forget we used to have a picture album in the OTT. We have dudes that are 60 lbs overweight making fun of fat people. LOL. What goes through my head is this…


People get into internet tough guy mode, and they forget that we have actually SEEN them. lol.


Hey when I see myself in the mirror I see a chiseled specimen…that is until I go to the pool and am too embarrassed to take my shirt off

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