Why this is different

The War Room Detroit Lions — The Den
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Right now, we seem to have two distinct camps on this forum concerning last night-

  1. The Lions were robbed of a win due to officials.

  2. The officials jobbed the Lions, but good teams overcome this and the Lions should only blame themselves.

Normally, I would be squarely in camp two. I have never started a post or by my recollection, contributed to a post that cries about officiating. But here is the thing…

Yes, good teams overcome a bad officiating call. You can cry all you want about how the officials picked up the flag in the playoffs against Dallas, or how Seattle poked the ball out of the end zone. But I agree, good teams can overcome that.

But I defy you to give me an instance in which officials have made 3 game changing calls against one team, and having that team overcome those calls to win a game.

Sadly, I need to specify which calls I am talking about in this case:

  1. Flowers hands to the face I

  2. Marvin Jones PI no call

  3. Flowers hands to the face II, revenge of the shoulder pads.

Yes, I understand I am asking you to do homework on this, but I would bet my house on the fact that no team has ever had to deal with 3 such blatant bad calls against them, all leading to extra points for the other team, and still managed to win the game.

So yes, good teams can overcome a terrible game changing call. But even great teams can’t overcome 3.

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If it were only those three, but they extended GB on the helmet to helmet hit which was incidental and not a penalty. They afforded GB another break with 13 men on the field and shorted the Lions by calling it on them and extending another GB drive.
The Lions used all three times out and the referee effectively stripped them of those by making that hands to the face call giving GB another three downs.
I blame Patricia and whoever is watching the replay for not alerting Patricia to throw his challenge flag. A forty yard change in field position, another score and we are talking about winning in spite of the referees.

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The reason you KNOW that this is different is the National Level response

I think 90% of the football fans fall into camp #2. We see bad calls every week and other than the die hards of the effected team, the country goes “eh, it was a bad call but those happen every game. A team needs to overcome it and find a way to win”. THAT is normally the overwhelming response …

In THIS case it is the opposite. In THIS case you almost universally, outside Packer fans, have the OPPOSITE reaction…you have “Damn…the Lions got ROBBED”. This case has hit on America’s sense of fair play and that is why your NOT getting the Camp #2 reaction

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100%. And for what it’s worth, I agree with Patricia not challenging that Jones PI. It would not have been overturned, since receivers essentially need to be mauled for PI overturns. But it’s an awful, awful missed call on the field. The exact type of play that PI is used for - a defender not making a play on the ball and contacting a receiver while they are trying to make a catch.

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Yep. Evidence has shown that refs are not willing to overturn PI calls. Would have been a waste of a TO.

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I believe the Walker PF was actually on 1st down, so not sure that would have extended the drive, but certainly helped in field position.

I’d also argue the over-ruling of KJ’s fumble to an incomplete pass changed a 1st down to a 4th and 2 and ended our drive in their territory

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Like the single call the ref made didn’t waste three time outs, come on dude, three time outs stripped as opposed to taking a shot.499 times out of 500 that is pass interference.

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There has been like ONE pass interference awarded as a result of a challenged “no call” of PI this season

Coaches have figured out that they are not going give a PI where none was called and don’t want to waste a TO

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don’t forget the Packer TD that the GB guy was down before reaching the end zone and the official called TD anyway.

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OR what about the horsecollar incident…no call.

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Those scenarios are not mutually exclusive. I believe that we both got completely jobbed and that we’re still a really good team that is going to overcome this get to the playoffs and be a complete pain in the you know what for any team in the NFC to beat come January.

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I agree completely but I did like one argument FOR throwing the flag: that it would be upheld and that would put an even bigger spotlight on the crap that is the refs and Al R on national tv.

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Are you referring to the one on Matt? Because thats not a horse collar…defensive are allowed to do that as long as the QB is still in the pocket.

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Exactly

We are not an easy out for any team in regular season or playoffs.

We are about 5 plays and an ill timed TO from 5-0

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I am referring specifically for a good team being able to overcome these 3 egregious calls in a game.

Like you, I believe this a good Lions teams that can still make the playoffs and win. Of course you have a couple posters in particular that feel this shows the Lions are mediocre and won’t make the playoffs (everyone knows who I am referring to). I think quite the opposite. The '84 Bears wouldn’t have been able overcome last night’s screw job. No team could have.

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I don’t agree. If we didn’t give up those free four points due to too many men on the field then it’s probably a different game.

We’re not playing up to our potential yet. We still need to learn how to win. We still need to clean things up and we definitely need to run the ball better.

The potential for this team is still through the roof. Sunday is an all chips in the pot kind of moment though. Absolutely a must win now.

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For me, knowing we were two scores ahead and just sacked his ass for a change of possession - with under them to go and we had the game sealed… common sense tells you as does probability we drain the clock for a few mins, we give the ball back a They the drive down and score… we are up by two, under three to play and have the ball with probably all time outs.

If we would have hit one more FG, going up 12 points, they need two TDs…

That game was won. And the the deathblow flag…

We were dinner - period

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You mean on the drive that we stopped them on 3rd down so they were going to have to punt, but they called a phantom PI to keep the Packers on the field? That drive?

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Sure. That drive. Whether or not we should have been on that position to begin with, once we were we still giftwrapped them four points.

I get the outrage but there is really no point crying over spilt milk. Time to get even. Circle the wagons, beat Minny and go on a run like we haven’t seen since 1991. These guys are capable of that.

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There was 25 pi challenged going into this week. Of that … ONE was overturned. Coaches have figured out the refs will protect their own on this play and not to waste a to or challenge. I’ve seen several way more obvious not get over turned

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