I think that’s a little extreme. I’m sure they’ll have some schemes/plays that will utilize his strengths which they should. But I have no reason to believe he can’t play zone when needed or he can’t be developed like any other player. I can’t even judge how bad he actually is at it. Its like set in stone that he’s bad or too slow and that’s not really the case. It’s a worry, and I get it don’t get me wrong. And you like him, and think he’s a great fit for all the reasons i do. So i understand your opinion for sure it’s valid.
I would be happy with Booker at 28. Yes he is an A+ run blocker. From what I watched on tape is that his pass blocking is even better. His ability to pass off stunts is amazing mostly due to his wide base, length, strength and a great football IQ. He would often punch 2 defenders at the same time until passing one to the center or OT. He would make life a lot easier for Decker.
1 Like
He would be just fine and a big improvement. Almost all of our run blocking schemes start with a double team block at the line of scrimmage. The quicker the OT or center can get off that double team block the more the play has a chance for success. If you have weak OGs that can’t sustain a block on a NT and Rags has to stay on the double team block there is nobody to get out on the LB. If anything he would add whole new dimensions to what we can do in our run game.
1 Like
Zeitler ran 5.39 coming out of Wisconsin.
I think so also. There aren’t any red flags i see at all. But regardless he would bring a lot.
Right! The guy is a freak. He’s a bully. Like I said I’m sure they’ll have some schemes/plays that will utilize his strengths to make the run game even better.
I do think he’ll be picked in the top 15 though.
I agree completely with all of this and want it on record that I wouldn’t hate the pick. I just worry that he doesn’t have the athleticism to run some of the plays we ran last year.
It’s not like I’m coming out of nowhere with this. Virtually everyone will question the juice. Any scouting report you look at. I mean just look at his RAS:
For the record, that will be the lowest RAS of an OL drafted in the 1st round this century. Do you want to bet on that kind of outlier?
But you’re eliminating Booker as an option to be that guy. Well, not all the time, but a majority of the time, and that makes us more predictable. Or that’s my concern at least. We haven’t had an even split the past 2 years, but the interchangeability at the second level was a nice feather in our cap (though Glasgow really struggled last year).
Yes but was MUCH faster out of the gates.
I really hate that you guys are making me out to be the anti-Booker guy. I’ve been arguing for him most of the off-season and trying to downplay the bad testing over on the reddit board, etc… But for us, specifically, it’s possible it takes one of our bread and butter plays away.
1 Like
And this, @JKQQL, is why I question whether or not Holmes would invest a 1st rounder in a OG… They’re relatively cheap on the open market compared to other positions that could be filled.
1 Like
This is where people don’t understand fit… The player is fine, but he’s a poor fit for the Lions scheme and it’d be even worse to spend a 1st on a player who wouldn’t be set up for success… Everyone remembers Jeff Okudah, right?
Honestly he’s a good fit for a lot of what we do, just not some of the stuff we use in some really high-leverage spots. He would be unlikely to be a bust, but does he advance us as much as some other guys? Especially for his opportunity cost compared to what a guy like Becton cost? For me not enough.
2 Likes
I’m personally not going to critique two sprinter starts from 300 plus pound men all that much. The point is we had a similar athletic profile there just last year. You’d have to commit to having a phone booth Right Guard I would assume. And it does help that you have Sewell next to him who is rangy as all hell. He can be the OL opening up to lead a counter or reverse or whatever the other way.
I’m fine with Booker. He’s going to be a good Guard. Value? Meh. But solid player in all likelihood.
For me it’s pray for one of the three DL that we’ve focused on for a while. If Harmon, Stewart and Mykel are all gone then I’m open minded. But those are the logical first three IMO.
If I knew that Mike Green was okay with us I’d have him as the fourth of those guys.
So if we pick at 28 one of those four if they all hit the character threshold.
1 Like
Thanks, but I was hoping it would be an exhaustive list… 
Oh, no i’m totally not. I even said you like him for the same reasons I do. It’s just friendly discussion about player prospects thats right before the draft that’s all. My hope is for the OL to stay elite. I know you wouldn’t mind Booker. I think more highly of him, but thats what makes discussions fun. Who doesn’t love this time of year?
1 Like
Yeah i can’t agree with this. It’s not valid to me. Especially from how I see of what Brad Holmes has done and says. A top OG at number 28 is amazing value. I’d choose a top 10 DE over a top 10 OG, but this is pick 28. When you’re picking late 2nd round, and later that’s more tricky.
People said the same thing about LB’s and RB’s. I get it, but i disagree. Brad will pick who he thinks is the best football player who is wired right and can help. If Brad he believes there’s an OG in the 1st who can elevate this OL (which he prioritizes) then i believe he would pick Booker (or anyone else) 100%.
I’ll also be honest… Alabama players come into the league so much more advanced than others that it makes me nervous. Often it doesn’t matter because you’re talking about talented guys who clearly have the ability to apply what’s being taught, and that’s a really good starting point.
But you have a lot of their guys who, while they rarely bust outright, come in at the lower end of their range of outcomes. I think that can be attributed to a couple of things: the surrounding talent making them look better - which I doubt is the case with Booker - and them no longer having a leg up when it comes to coaching/technique. But if you start with the first class of Bama alums entering the league after a couple of years of Saban’s coaching influence, you’ve got:
1st Rounders: Andre Smith, Rolando McClain, Marcell Dareus, James Carpenter, Trent Richardson, Mark Barron, Dre Kirkpatrick, Dee Milliner, Chance Warmack, DJ Fluker, Ha-Ha Clinton-Dix, Amari Cooper, Reuben Foster, OJ Howard, Rashaan Evans, Jonah Williams, Jerry Jeudy, Jedrick Wills, Tua Tagovailoa, Najee Harris, Alex Leatherwood, Mac Jones, Evan Neal, Bryce Young.
(And Henry Ruggs, though extenuating circumstances there obviously)
2nd Rounders: Javier Arenas, Terrence Cody, Courtney Upshaw, Cyrus Kouandjo, TJ Yeldon, Landon Collins, Cyrus Jones, Jarran Reed, A’Shawn Robinson, Reggie Ragland, Ryan Anderson, Cam Robinson, Irv Smith, Raekwon Davis, Phildarian Mathis, John Metchie.
3rd Rounders: Rashad Johnson, Glen Coffee, Antoine Caldwell, Mike Johnson, ArDarius Stewart, Tim Williams, Ronnie Harrison, Damien Harris, Anfernee Jennings, Terrell Lewis, Christian Harris, Cameron Latu, Jordan Battle, Byron Young, Tyler Steen, Jermaine Burton.
That’s an INORDINATE amount of guys who didn’t reach the heights their drafting teams envisioned for them, probably 2-3 more times the number of hits. Alabama players make me nervous. Obviously you scout the player not the helmet, but I have always found that difficult on elite rosters, and Booker is more of the same.
You and me both, yeah. Been in lockstep pretty much the whole time on that.
2 Likes
Walter Nolen would be another one in that tier and I’m in agreement with you both
2 Likes
A lot of those guys you mentioned did.
I don’t disagree. DL is a must and would be very happy, but I believe, and based on their success, the OL is number 1. If that slips even a little, it can be really bad.
1 Like
Let me ask you guys realistically. My whole thing is prioritizing the OL. Whether it’s Booker or someone else. That’s my whole debate. To me there’s a big hole after KZ left, and GG took a step back. Not to mention i worry about Decker, and Ragnow declining.
This is a big hole. You guys think Zeitler can be replaced, or anyone is the late 2nd round or later can improve this OL or even keep it where it’s at? This is a big problem for me.
They weren’t busts, but they didn’t come anywhere near their ceilings either. Amari Cooper at 4 for instance… you’re looking for a superstar there. A Ja’Marr Chase (who went 5th) or Malik Nabers. Cooper was fine, but not that. Marcell Dareus played in the league a long time, but he went 3rd overall! They wanted Suh or McCoy or Quinnen, instead they got a guy who was fine. Over and over you see that.
I’m with you 100% on improving the OL. I’ve been saying that all off-season, mentioned many times that if we’d suffered the same injuries on the OL we did on the DL we wouldn’t have sniffed 15-2. We’d have been lucky to make the playoffs!
However, I think you can find OL help - especially along the interior - without having to spend a 1st rounder on it. Mahogany’s a great example. He was AWESOME in his starts last year, and he was a 6th rounder! He shouldn’t have gone that late, but he was a consenssus 2/3rd rounder everywhere, not a 1st rounder.
1 Like
Its a little misleading and untrue. You’re purposely trying to find busts or people who didn’t get to that A+ range. You’re also including 2nd rounds and later. There’s a low probability those guys became anything great.
Marcell Dareus was a great player. And i remember him being signed to one of the biggest extensions (at that time). I’d argue he was just as good as Suh or McCoy. He was one of the best DT’s in the NFL
I don’t understand your ratings for talent and how you’re judging where they were drafted. Is the standard A+? Because B players are great too.