It doesn’t bother me so much anymore. I won’t work myself up into a lather about it, however I don’t think they survive another non-playoff year. So the good news would be playoffs or bust - or tear the whole thing down again. Yippee!
I want to see them swing for the fences this offseason. Move up and get Chase Young. Add a few more monsters on D, add to the OL. Another RB. Throw everything they’ve got at the 2020 team and see what happens. Is there anything else to do?
I feel like these dudes are going to get more time than most of you believe they will. I’m doing my best to just enjoy the ride, and hoping for the best. I can see where this thing could work out. We do for the D what we’ve done for the O, and we’re in business. I think we have better personnel than most think.
I think we need more versatility schematically. I would rather have that than just try to have amazing players at every position. I feel like there is more of a plan in place than meets the eye. This extra cap space makes no sense, if they are in “win now” mode. I think we get a new DC, and snag some personnel to fit what he’s dong. some of the guys opened my eyes to other possibilities, in a different conversation.
I haven’t lost faith yet, but the growing pains are friggin’ brutal.
100% with you on this. Honestly, I don’t think these guys are on a 1 year leash. I honestly think they see the end of their deals in Detroit and perhaps even get an extension if Detroit begins to make improvements in the W/L column. I honestly think when they got brought on they sold this very thing to the ownership, that it was going to take time to rebuild this team from the ground up and transform an unstable franchise into a stable franchise. I think we overlook that BQ basically fired everyone associated with the Lions and has been rebuilding this program from the ground up…in every aspect.
the OA product needs success even if he fully rebuilt it, there is no excuse for a cliff-diving defense.
I guess we will have to see how this team looks next year when they are hopefully healthy. Until that point, it is going to be back and forth with people arguing that the injuries are being made too big of a deal etc. The only player on the defensive line who is at all healthy at this point today is Daniels and he has been fighting an ankle/foot injury all year long. People who say it’s not injuries could be completely right, but I like to problem solve and the most logical thing that explains how a top 10 defense with all the same players, PLUS (+) additions, drops to 31 is injuries. It wasn’t just one or two people who thought this defense would be this team’s strength…EVERYONE thought it would be…so something happened…something is going on…it seems too easy to say it’s just coaching or lack of talent. It could be a lack of talent on the field DUE to injuries…atkins and strong have and had been playing alot more then any of us would like…
That’s the crux of it, though. What if there are not improvements in the W/L column? What if next year is 6-10 again? The old gal may call Mayhew and Caldwell back to recapture a bit of the mediocrity we had attained.
You’re not wrong at all. . I do not think we will be 6-10 next year…I am always hopeful not because I have totally bought into this team. But because I am desperate for winning football. 2016 was amazing because after Thanksgiving we were 9-4 and every single freaking game was fun to watch. 2017 we all knew we were dead after the Falcons game…we all knew we were dead after the seahawk game in 2018 and this year…well yea you get the picture…3 straight years of being dead before week 9.
I really believe Stafford doesn’t get hurt we go on the run we all hoped…we beat the bears, cowboys, skins, etc…the WL would have come this year…9-6-1…NOT GOOD enough…but progress. This year was a perfect storm of tough first 5 games, refs, injuries and some bad coaching at times and a roster that isn’t there yet.
Turning point of the season was the bogus calls vs. the Packers. Would have taken first place. But with the D this team isn’t built to win anything. And Stafford should just sit until next season to get fully healthy.
An above average offseason and some luck with injuries and I don’t think this team is that far off. Really. If they find players that can get pressure and be better against the run, they really only need to add a RB and upgrade RT. A stud OG perhaps. Most of what they need they have. BUT… Chase Young please.
This team was supposed to be a playoff team according to Quin. Jim Caldwell was fired because the Lions making the playoffs 2 out 4 seasons was not good enough. 9-7 was not good enough. OK Mr. Quin………based on your own assessment…………your not good enough! Take a walk!
Keep Darell Bevell. Clean out the rest! I would rather have Terell Austin for our defensive coordinator.
Agree whole-heartedly. Other will laugh, but a rogue referee had a huge effect on this season, and maybe this franchise for years. The feeling that I had after that gem is “Its just no use”, someone will find a way to snatch success from us. If I feel that way as a fan, I just can’t imagine what it does to you as a player. Don’t give me the BS - that its one call, and they could have done other things right to make the call irrelevant. The critical timing of penalties has haunted this franchise for years. My brother, a staunch Giants fan was recently in a group talking to others about the NFL, amongst me, Cowboys fans, Jets fans, Eagles fans etc. He said - “yeah all of you girls can whine about refs all you want. The only team that has a legitimate beef is the Lions”.
That being said, I want a Bruce Arians who calls out the ref’s. I want someone equally as rogue as that referee. I want a coach to make a statement. Maybe even pull his team off the field with a forfeit. Do something that makes the league fucking pay attention. Also, I don’t buy into the fact that “the league wants certain teams to win”. I think its individual refs that cannot take their bias out of it. Whether its Hochuli, Jeff Rice, and three or four others, the NFL has to hold these assholes accountable in some way.
So I voted to can Patricia. He’s not an experienced enough coach to do whats needed to REALLY change the culture around here. Would I be upset if Martha gave him one more year? No. But he really needs to come into his own next year, or he’s gone. Its frustrating as hell watching no pass rush. C’mon man.
I happen to like Quinn, but I think he needs to improve too. I actually like most of his drafts, No I didn’t want TJ with Bush right there. I think he plays it safe in the first round – which I have always liked… you can’t miss there. He gambles in the second and third rounds and has hit - on Gollladay, Walker, Hand, etc. I think Tavai was good too. That being said, I’ve come to realize playing it safe in Round 1 is probably not going to get you a super bowl. Once Allen dropped past five, Quinn needed to go get him no matter what. We’ve been one short on our stud linebacker who I pulled for the last two years - Vander Esch and Allen. That hurts. Alot. Quinn has done less well in free agency. Coleman looked good, Snacks was good, Kennard was good. Lang was not, Daniels was not, Jury still out on Flowers, esp. with the DE draft class last year. But overall, I think Quinn is better than our last two GMs.
So, even though I doubt Patricia is the answer, and I would recommend just cutting our losses now, I can see how giving him one more year is ‘prudent’. This year turned on a referee’s bias. Who knows how it would have turned out if we beat the Pack, as we certainly did. Maybe Stafford plays through pain and we win the last two. So we’re 6-3-1 instead of 3-6-1. A post like this maybe never happens if it weren’t for Jeff Rice.
Ya know, you make a really good point about Allen. I wanted him badly for this defense. I do like TJ, but shoot, make that trade, go get that kid at 7.
Two years is not enough to judge by. I think people sorta misquote Quinn (and he’s definitely on notice right now) when he said Caldwell level mediocrity isn’t good enough. He didn’t say he’d get them on a playoff run in year one, just that he didn’t believe Caldwell’s culture was going to get us there. It’s all on him now, if Patricia fails he should get swept at the same time, this is his baby. If they suck next year, they should all go. But just two years for a rookie HC is not enough, hell Belichick didn’t light the world on fire early in his career. I will give Patricia one thing. Wins and losses aside, he grew up a lot this year. I think he can take another step forward next year. With some roster upgrades and decent injury luck, this is a team that can be fixed by 2020. The offense is definitely on track. The D needs to get pressure, because the DBs are good. The one thing I’m wondering about is Snacks. Do they need to swap him out to find a NT to do the job? He was so good last year. I wonder if he’s a lost cause, or just struggling this year? Because that’s a key spot in this D.
Last time a defensive head coach had defense this bad after year 2 we didn’t win a game year 3.
This ain’t getting fixed with personnel.
Ah okay. You realize how extreme your position has become, right? You are literally saying the past determines - and not just informs - the future. Do you also believe in astrology?
I think a few difference makers can make this team formidable.
I’ve got to say, I’m surprised at the results.
I was not on-board with getting rid of Quinn or Patricia going into this season. But this disastrous defense has changed my mind.
Patricia was brought here as the defensive guru, and we have the worst defense in the league. A defense that opposing QBs snicker about after games.
Any excuse involving injuries is loser-talk. Injuries to key players happen to every team. And if you’re saying our depth is so bad that a couple of injuries and we become the worst defense in the NFL, that goes right back to Quinn.
I hear people in another thread explaining away the disappointing performance of T.J. Hockenson (8th overall!!??!!) by saying he had to stay home and block because the offensive line was so bad. We’ve invested more draft and free agency capital into the o-line than any other position group, and it’s bad? Again, back to Quinn.
So with Patricia’s absolute failure, you say at least he has to go. But that means you’re letting Quinn, who made the massive Patricia mistake, pick another coach? Quinn, who fired Caldwell because 9-7 wasn’t good enough?
You can’t get rid of Patricia and retain Quinn. Therefore, they both need to go.
A lot of us know how bad the defense is yet the Lions have been in a lot of close games. The average point differential per game for the Lions is 5 points. If the Lions defense wasn’t so banged up and had a few impact players, I believe the record would be different. They have actually competed really well against really good teams. Could have, should have, won some of those games.
Both Matt Patricia and Bob Quinn’s 5-year contract run through 2022. If Patricia gets fired, so will Quinn.
Clearing all this cap space could mean they are setting up for big acquisitions near year. I really hope they address the trenches and sign/trade for some impact players via free agency and draft. To me, it’s make or break next season.
With all due respect, your completely taking a very plausible part of the reason for the collapse off the table. Injuries do occur but do teams have successful seasons when they occur to the level that they have occurred to this defense? Literally every player on the lions defensive line has some sort of significant injury…is missing games or playing significantly impaired. It is not simply a “few” injuries. You question this team’s depth but what team is going to be successful when undrafted FA’s are playing significant portions of the game due to the injuries and needing to give the starters a breather. This defense’s philosophy depends on the defensive line setting the tone and it has not been able to and that has made the weakness of the LB’s even more glaring. I am not saying MP or BQ are perfect…far from it actually…and i am not saying injuries are the only factor but to try and diminish their impact is negligent.
Like the Jules Winnfield reference there.