I have never called him a WILL. Of course he’s not a WILL. The WILL is an ILB in 34 terms, the Jack is an OLB. The WILL is an off the ball LB, the Jack is on the ball.
WEAK is a side of the ball, not a single player.
Weakside OLB = Jack
Weakside ILB = WILL
Weakside Safety = FS
I can see the Patriot way coming. “Just do Your job”.
If these guys can “do their job”, the combinations are going to confuse the hell out of QB’s.
Ummm … You did multiple times… that’s why I corrected you … lol
Here’s one example where you did.
Jack = Weak - This statement is not correct. Your calling the Jack a weak side LBer which he is not.
Will and Weak are the same thing. This part is correct.
Here is another example where you did it.
Jack is not the weak-side LBer. He lines up on the weak side. (There is a big difference in those statements) The Jack does line up on-the-ball. (This part is correct) The WILL is the weak-side LBer who lines up off-the-ball. Two totally different positions. They are not the same.
From your above quote.
Sam = Strong - This is correct
Jack = Weak - This is not correct. WILL = Weak - This is correct.
LBer positions in a 3-4 are the following.
Jack - Edge guy lined up on the line. Sets the edge.
Sam - Strong side LBer
Mike - Middle Lber
WILL - Weak side LBer
4 different positions not 3 different positions.
Hope this helps.
I am not calling him a WILL. From the very 1st reply I am establishing there are 4 LBs. I am simply stating how the names coincide with the side of the field. The sides of the field are referred to as Strong and Weak. The names of the positions are given accordingly. When I say weak, it is describing a side of the field. When I say Sam, Jack, Will and Mike it is exactly as described by Jerod Mayo and depicted in the picture.
Let’s try it this way …
Using the picture I provided, how many linebackers are on the Strong side of the formation and what are their names? How many linebackers are on the Weak side of the formation and what are their names?
Please understand I’m not trying to pick on you here. I respect you as a poster and feel your more knowledgeable than most.
I’ll just say this and let this die off.
You are calling a Jack a weak side LBer which is the same as calling him a WILL … maybe you don’t mean to. Your using the wrong terminology at the very least.
I played the position in college and the way you worded your post was confusing even to me. So I stepped in to clarify.
I know this is a common mistake and it’s the reason more and more coaches have stopped referring to the Jack as a LBer all together. It’s confusing. That is also why the term edge has become so prevalent today.
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Jack is always an outside LBer. He can drop into coverage and rush the passer. I played this role in college along with strong safety. Jack is never the weak. Our Jack LBers are going to be mostly J. Okwara and Bryant. These players are edge guys and are interchangeable with a DE. But they can and do drop into coverage. They set the edge in run support. These guys play up on the line of scrimmage mostly.
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Is it true that these two (Bryant, Julian) are truer JACK LBers than Kennard was? That’s my suspicion - without specifically knowing what the NE 3/4 idealizes there. :They appear to me, more so, to be rush-end-first, drop into coverage second, type guys. Kennard was a backer first, edge rush second kind of guy.
If this is true - that a true JACK would be a rush-first, coverage second skill-tier, then this would seem to be the first time we’ve had the right player(s) for this role at the position. A Bryant played last year - but for what - 4, 6 games (as a recently injured rookie)?
Sounds like a plan. Clearly I’m stating something incorrectly when you state what I’ve already stated as a correction to what I’ve stated. LOL
Sort of … their primary responsibilities are Rushing in pass situations and setting the edge in run situations.
I would say in most cases the answer is yes … but It depends on the situation to be frank.
Let me try to explain.
What is a Jack in MP hybrid defense and why would we want one?
Basically your subtracting a DE and adding a hybrid Edge guy who is comfortable enough to set an edge, rush the passer and/or drop into coverage.
The advantage of having a Jack over a DE is that you can hide where the blitz will come from and who is covering whom. You can hide who’s dropping in coverages as well. You can show a 5 man front but only blitz 3 and drop the rest into coverage. This often confuses opposing QB’s and OL blocking assignments. Which leads to mistakes. Another advantage of having a Jack is that he brings more range than a traditional DE would. The name “Jack” actually comes from the term the jack of all trades.
Yes and no. Going by last year, my understanding is that Devon Kennard was our JACK LB. Christian Jones was our WILL, most of the time. Kennard, the JACK lined up way more often than not on the Left side of the defensive formation and took on RT’s and TE’s. Jones played off the ball on the right side of the defensive formation or the W-Weak side. Now I understand that if you motion a TE from the right side of the formation to the left side, the “strong” side just became the left side of the offensive formation because you have 3 players on the LOS on the left and only 2 on the right. Line has a different take entirely, which I’m not tracking with. Who was our JACK LB more often than not last year? That will answer my quesiton.
My take is illustrated in the picture. I wouldn’t have thought I would create confusion in referencing the Strong and _____ side of the formation is, but apparently I have.
I have tried to name the positions in this thread as they are associated with the Strong and _______ side.
That is not registering with anyone, so I’ve given up (except for having been mentioned by name).
Your words regarding Kennard “Taking on RT’s and TE’s” says something.
Air’s words regarding the Jack “He lines up on the weak side” says something, too.
I agree with what you’re calling Jones and doubly agree with the “most of the time” part.
What Line is saying is that the JACK will line up next to the WILL, therefore the JACK is on the weakside of the defense. If you have a 3/4 front, you have 4 LB’s, so you have two weak side linebackers and two strong side linebackers.
If Devon Kennard did not play the JACK LB role most of the time last year, then I’ve got it wrong. Our guys line up all over the place at times, but I’ll watch a whole game and most of it, Devon Kennard was playing as the Left, outside Linebacker, whatever you want to call that, he rushed from the left end of the LOS most of the time, whatever you want to call that role. If he wasn’t our JACK, then I’m wrong and someone is going to have to tell me who was “most” of the time.
From what I understand, he was our JACK LB, when we had the JACK in there and not a 4-3 front. I was just trying to reconcile what Line was saying with what Air was saying. I can tell you right now, I did not pay enough attention to our defensive lineup to comment on what we actually did (other than we weren’t very good at it).
I call it the LOLB position 
because most people understand ROLB and LOLB to be 3-4 type players and positions. I wouldn’t call him a Jack unless he was lining up on the weak side and had a DE playing a 4i or 5 tech spot, keeping him clean as a pass-rusher to challenge the OT with his speed one on one. IF I was forced to call Kennard by a name, it would be a 34 SAM because he’s lined up on the conventional Strong side. I prefer Edge or LOLB or even LDE because it avoids the very confusion that we see. I become more entrenched in this naming convention when Jerod Mayo describes it the same.
For me it all stems from the roster turnover in Patricia’s 1st year. We jettisoned 4-3 DEs and have clearly been taking on more 34 LBs or Tweener types.
You have seen that very thing and commented on it repeatedly.
Kind of a tangent, but… A 34 LB is more likely able to play both 34 systems and 43. The same can’t be said in reverse, at least not with the OLBs. A MIKE travels well between both. A 43 SAM would probably make a 34 team as the WILL. (Talking body types here.) A 43 Will is likely a tick too light to really transition well to a 34 Will. (Very broad generalization on that one). Any way you look at it, most 43 LBs would fit only as ILBs on a 34.
Jones plays WILL on some snaps and he plays like a 43 SAM on some. A 43 SAM will be the guy on the TE and pretty much stay on him. A 34 SAM role will more likely remain on the line and rush against either the TE or the OT or occasionally he will drop back into coverage. Same name, different role and body types depending on 34 vs 43. We clearly have the 34 body types, so I automatically consider our OLBs in those terms (not SAM and WILL as in 43, rather SAM and Jack as in 34). Totally different players. That’s our disconnect. You’re looking at WILL as an OLB like in a 43. I look at him like a 34 Will or ILB. Same guy, same plays. The roster make-up and various line-ups set my default to 34 terms for both off-the-ball LBs. Inside LBs Mike and Will.
Based on what we see on the roster and on the field, I contend we have 34 LBs already and even more-so this year. We have OLBs that can play DE. We have ILBs that can handle Guards (except Davis ).
We deploy numerous combinations of both 34 and 43 alignments. (That’s why I mentioned the tangent above.). Sometimes a true 43 with Jones the Sam, Tavai the Mike and Davis the Will. Sometimes a true 34 with a SAM, Jack, Mike and Will. The Sam and Jack are on the line and appear to be rushers and edge setters, though 1 or both may drop out. 1 of them is on the strong side (SAM), one is not (Jack). Both are tweeners (again our 34 OLB body types).
LOL. It’s not a bad thing at all, for things to be so un-clear cut. If Kennard is the JACK then what I’m thinking mostly is right. I understand our guys move around. Line’s shot above proves that out as Kennard is on the weak side of the formation, with Bryant on the Left EDGE (whatever you want to call him on that play). I believe the JACK in our system lines up mostly on the Strong Side of the formation which most of the time is the right side of the offense. He becomes the 4-3 LDE in a 3 man front, which we run all the time, when he drops down from his LB spot to the LOS over the RT or TE.
Whew that was a mouthful 
I taught philosophy on the college level and this is among the most oblique conversations I’ve ever been apart of
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Thats meant as a compliment
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more likely that not
I completely understand what he’s trying to say but he’s saying it wrong.
When you call the Jack the weak side LBer it’s a false statement. The weak side LBer is the WILL.
It’s like saying the RG is the RT because he line up on the right side. The Gaurd and the tackle are two separate positions with separate responsibilities. So you can’t call them the same name.
You have it right. Kennard was our primary Jack in most situations.
The difference in athleticism between Kennard and Okwara is going to startle people. Different ball game.