First of all i said premium positions, certainly dont classify te as a premium position. I also prefaced it by saying a position where multiple guys play at the same time. No need to throw qb and te as examples in response to what i wrote and what i clarified above but good job @1CasanovaJack for missing the point.
Especially when we are talking a premium position where our best player is an udfa on his second year and a former top 3 pick that likely wont have his option picked up.
The larger point is your emphasis on early returns in the 1st is demonstrably not the same as the Lions GM.
Also lets be clear we talk about how dumb millen was for drafting three wr, and pre rookie wage scale it really was dumb to devote resources like that to a singular position group certainly when you couldnt get talent outside of the 1st as you were terrible at identifying talent. With that said millens failures were due to picking the wrong guys not what position he drafted. If the player plays a premium position and is graded significantly higher than everyone else on your board just take him and figure it out later. You have 2 firsts, 2 seconds, a third and a few other picks plus free agency. It isnt much of an opportunity cost and we are completely devoid of players at cb. I could understand if he double dipped, now i dont think he will and i probably wouldnt as you likely will have similarly graded player at another valuable position. But to be so tunnel visioned based on what you did in the top ten that you dont take the significantly better player in a position that we are terrible at makes no sense to me.
We are just getting out of a rebuild, a total makeover, how do you compare that to where we are now? You just got done saying that had we drafted differently we’re in the playoffs. I gave you hindsight and you declined. The point is we are no longer in a total makeover and yes I do expect players taken in the first to be contributors. You really think this team is in the same place as the past 2 seasons when we enter the draft?
“When reason isn’t used for people to form opinions, then reason can’t be used to change their minds.”…Jonathon Swift
At cornerback we 100% are a rebuilding team
So that means we have to draft 2 in the first instead of 1 in the draft and 1 in FA, you know, a guy who has actually taken some NFL snaps and you know what you are getting? Ah, smart.
Oh man i forgot that you cant sign a player in free agency at a position you draft man that was stupid huh… dude, whether it is two firsts and a free agent or a first a third and a free agent, or one drafted player and two free agents. We realistically should have a new top 3 or at least a top 2 cornerback room if we want to make the playoffs next year.
I am of no belief that drafting two cb in the first will solve all our cb needs, but if i were to say that you drafted sauce and woolen in the first this upcoming draft and they started day one having the year they just had as rookies are you telling me i made a bad decision? Super smart to take a JAG at another position vs a guy you rate as a top end starter at a premium position, you have swayed me.
The Bears…that’s the Bears.
LOL, well way to keep arguing then, well done. Jesus Christ where do they come from? And CB is SUCH a guarantee, the bust rate hardly even exists.
with the No. 3 pick in the 2020 NFL draft:
Pick: Jeff Okudah, Ohio State cornerback.
Grade: A.
The reason: The Lions stuck with straight logic and need and took the Buckeyes’ big, physical cornerback who’s excellent in press coverage and a very good tackler in run support. He also fills a big need with Darius Slay gone. The Lions did the right thing not overthinking this pick and selected a Day 1 starter who immediately improves a position group that will be significantly reshaped.
Since when is the draft all about next year… and that is the only part of my comment you want to respond to, doesnt seem like you want to have an honest conversation.
So, again, if i tell you we drafted the equivalent of sauce and woolen in the first they won the starting job and had the season they had this year. You are telling me you would prefer to draft a dt instead of woolen just because he isnt a cb? That is just dumb, enjoy having a guy that we rotate with buggs because he just isnt good enough while i pair two top talent cb’s for not only next year when they can learn from a free agent but also the future.
The draft isnt entirelt about what will happen this year, you need to factor in things like positional value and overall potential with team needs. Not just team needs for christ sake… that is how we end up with ebron, hockenson, and okudah… but keep it up and act like i am “stupid” for saying i wouldnt be upset if brad double dipped at cb.
What kind of fairly tale land do you come from? I can make up bullshit non-existent scenarios and throw them back at you too, does it make me right? Nah, but nice try. LOL, I’m done, this isn’t an argument it’s fairy tale land.
One where i dont think we should say something is stupid before we even see 1. Who is available, 2. What positions they play
My whole point whether you want to call it fairy tale or not is that the exact situation you say is dumb would have made a gm look like a genius just this season. So get off your holier than tho horse and get that i scenario that 100% could have been done just this season isnt fairy tale land.
I stand by my belief that if brad rates two cb as all pro talents and at the time they are widely above players at other positions he would take both and move onto the rest of the draft where he has plenty of other resources to add to the team. Why is it controversial or “stupid” in your mind to double dip at cornerback regardless of the situation? Have fun drafting ebron over donald mr mayhew.
ZZZZZZZZZZZZzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz
I don’t think you have to take two first rounders.
I wouldn’t mind taking two in the draft, though.
Dan is downplaying Okuda’s struggles, which, he didn’t do with Amani.
@LionFrog “Have to” has nothing to do with what i have said. They dont ever have to take anything in the first round let alone two of the same position group. But to say you wouldnt draft a second premium player be they cb, de, edge rushers, OT in the first round because you already spent a first is imo dumber than saying you would be okay with it.
Excluding the better player at a premium position is dumb always imo, why is that so controversial here?
Now no i dont think that will be the scenario, but to say emphatically that you are dumb for being okay with it if it happens is ridiculous.
I wish I knew what was going on with Amani? He seemed like a solid CB last year, and this year, just an after thought.
I’m left thinking he’s a scheme casualty.
If Holmes and company believe that the best players available at their draft picks are CBs, then I would not have a problem if that is the way the started. With that said I do not think that CB will be the best player available at both positions. I also think that if Holmes wanted to double down on a position it would be in separate rounds, just like he has done the first 2 drafts.
And for a talent-starved team, I would have expected our 1st round pick (Jamo) to be a contributor, too.
So, I look at what BH has done and it occurs to me that he is drafting for ceiling early. By early, I mean into the 2nd as well. It’s a call that all GMs have to make. Based on Brad Holmes’s drafting, I’m not pigeon-holing him (with my own expectations) into specific positions with our 1st 3 picks. He could go all DB and I wouldn’t be surprised. You obviously would have an issue with this, expecting our picks this year to “put us over the top”. Maybe you’re right or maybe everything will line up where we get impact players with high ceilings at positions of need, as long as they’re not all DB, even though that is where our greatest needs are.
Im all for taking bpa while considering positional value. That really could be 2 dbs in the 1st this year. I personally would consider CB Gonzales and S/NB Branch a super successful 1st round especially considering the weakest part of this team is the back 7 of the D.
I never said DB, I said CB’s, plural. I’m not pigeon holing anything, I’m simply making the point that 2 CB’s in the first would be stupid. I do expect our picks to put us over the top, and I I do expect our off season moves to get us into the playoffs. Free agency and the draft, you bet. BTW, what exactly is, “over the top”? If you are 1 loss away from making the playoffs and you have 4 picks in the first 2 rounds and can’t shore up, not fix but get better, then you have failed.
And I have also asked you whether Holmes would have grabbed Williams in the first if he didn’t expect him to play after the first 4 games. From all accounts, that was the timetable. Using him as an example for what BTW? Again, ONE MORE TIME, do you really not see the difference between a team that was in a total rebuild and where we are today?