some of what you say is true in terms of scheme. but unfortunately so is the topic of loyalty as it plays into the personnel decisions made.
but lets say you want to see scheme as the only issue and forget about loyalty. it still doesn’t change the fact that MP the defensive genius has failed with the guys he hand-picked to run his own personal scheme. the end results aren’t good and he’s had his hands and experience all over that side of the ball. he and nobody else can’t say he doesn’t have his guys. if they were hand picked by him, then the only thing left to conclude is that he and BQ a) aren’t great talent evaluators, b) he doesn’t know how to coach them or c) a mixture of both.
I get that. I’m also living that dream… I’m not a hardass dickhead, but that’s what you are accused of if you like, insist people deliver on what they are paid to accomplish these days…
Depends on how you view how this season started, then progressed and last year definitely comes into play as well. Last year Harrison was a brilliant decision and instantly transformed our run defense. This year, he held out of OTA’s came into camp woefully out of shape and by the time he was any semblance of his dominant self, the season was over. Trey Flowers was hurt coming into the season. So was THAT MP’s guy? The Flowers just getting back from a shoulder injury? Or is it the guy we’ve seen the last several weeks? Hand was a brilliant pick and was one of the best rookie Dlineman drafted a year ago. This year? Hurt all year and no impact. So do we “really” have all Patricia’s guys in place and thus no excuses?? I say no sir. Not the case. Walker? Missed time and was counted on to bring what he was bringing at the end of last year and did early on, until… Not MP’s fault. There has not been enough time to replace most defensive starters AND provide excellent depth in case any of those guys get hurt. Look I’m skeptical. I’m just not ready to pretend none of these realities exist.
kinda piggybacking on what wes is saying but taking it in a bit of a different direction at the same time. i don’t think any particular style necessarily matters. the only thing that matters is that players (aka employees) respect their bosses and respond to them in positive ways. that requires some adaptability. i’m not sure some of the old style hard ass coaches that were greats back in the day would be successful today because the world has changed. the dynamic is different. the competition and parity make things less lopsided as well.
you can’t force belief or respect on people. it’s a mysterious thing. you either got the goods or you don’t. sometimes you’re a good enough liar to pull it off but it’s hard to do. at the end of the day the only thing that matters is that everybody on board the ship is moving in the same direction. crew and captain alike regardless of the style that’s steering the ship.
as others have said, injuries are realities and not excuses. caldwell played without an entire starting OL in one of his last seasons and they managed.
in terms of snacks, they decided he was worth the money and gave it to him. that’s on them for believing in the guy and ponying up the dough. personally, i think the problem with flowers is more that he came into camp out of shape vs injured. they gave the dude 90 million and it took him more than half a season to get in shape. this is a guy MP supposedly knows well from his time in NE. n. suh was a douche but if you paid him that kind of money, he wouldn’t show up to camp but you could count on him to be a force from qtr 1 of the regular season. flowers was a big let down in that regard for what they paid him. if i respected my coach and he paid me that kind of money, you’d bet i would have come into camp ready to go.
i’ve said it before and some won’t buy it, injuries are part of the game but lots of injuries happen when you’re getting outplayed or put in bad positions. perhaps they were pushed too hard in preseason by the strict standards?
anyway, the problem is the scheme aint working with the hand-picked guys they got in there. that 3 man front of 300+ road graters isn’t getting any pressure which renders even a guy like slay helpless after a certain amount of time. they can’t stop the run and if they bring up those big LBs to help, they’re even more exposed on the backend.
You can be demanding and not be a dickhead. Josh McDaniels wasn’t pushing his guys any harder than other coaches, he was just a fukn dick that the guys didn’t want to play for.
I think it’s not all that much about how demanding a coach is. The NFL is the very height of competition. All of these guys - both coaches and players - are ultra-motivated and demanding of themselves and others.
I think the disconnect is that Patricia is being militantly stubborn about something where’s he’s clearly in the wrong. This scheme is so obviously warmed-over dog vomit, but he seems insistent that it’s just “execution”… code for “the scheme is good if these pieces of crap could just do it right.”
It’s not surprising at all that there is dissension in the ranks with that kind of attitude.
MP came in with the attitude it’s my way or the high way and he starts sending starters packing. Veterans were saying (first camp) that they didn’t think anything they did made him happy. He sent veteran, locker room guys like Tate and Diggs packing because they questioned him. Personally I don’t think MP has a chance in hell to get this team to play for him. He lost all hope the moment he sent Diggs packing. That’s what Glover is saying. The players don’t like or respect him because he doesn’t respect his players or the team leaders. He’s done … I’d be shocked if we won another game. If we retain him another year we will only sit the franchise back even further. The Fords hopefully make the right choice and send him packing. He’s done it’s only a matter of time.
I enjoy talking with you guys and respect you all, but I really have no idea where some of these impressions are coming from.
There was media-led blow-back last year when Pattricia had them running gassers. The meddling continued when he had them practicing outdoors in the weather. He addressed them after those outdoor workouts with hard science and things have quieted a great deal from the girls of dish nation on that front. He had a workout routine that more closely resembled that of a championship franchise. If it washes out certain players, bye-bye.
He has his processes and methods. They are his and he’s installing them. This is his responsibility and he’s owning it. In reality, there’s nothing to see here. There is no story on the when/how/what is being done during the week. There is no my way way or the highway. There is a workplace that everyone is showing up to and trying to do their job.
The HC himself is more of a player’s coach than anyone here seems to give him credit for. Yes, he has a routine for them. Yes, he expects to coach them and for his coaches to coach them. Yes, he expects them to pour all they have into their Sunday effort. Yes, he wants to clean up sloppy play. Yes, they will review tape and correct mistakes. That’s not because he’s a perfectionist trying to get them to reach an unattainable goal, rather it’s the competition of 31 other teams that demands it.
There is tape of New England defenders preventing TD’s in the SB because they’re playing their man. They’re first reading their own guy before cheating and looking at the QB. This is not a comfortable position for DB’s if you’re used to zone or used to reading the QB. This is, IMO, where Diggs is most vocal behind the scenes. It’s not about Matt, it’s about their technique. He would rather they play more zone, I’m sure. Part of me wishes they would. Another part of me knows that playing tight man coverage opens up the defensive playbook and makes the team better. So, I think we’re caught in that transition. I think our DB’s know they could be better in zone but our coaches have the long view on playing better man coverage.
Don’t disagree on this. Ultimately it’s hard for a tiger to change his stripes. Patricia seemed to be a well liked guy in NE. I assume much of that was because the entire team was built with players who thrive under tough coaching and has since about 2001. So Patricia is a tough coach, which is why Belichick installed him and continually moved him up the ranks until he was one of his most trusted assistants. When you think Jim Caldwell, you think wonderful man, but not at all a “touch coach.” So it is logical that the team he built would be very different mentally than the one Patrica left. So what do you do? You are trying to build what the Pats have. Not build on the one Caldwell couldn’t achieve great things with. Too many players were different that what MP needed, both physically and mentally. I doubt we are done with that transition and yes, MP needs to win over his guys. But he can’t change his stripes too much to do it. Guys would sniff that out as fake.
It appears through all I’ve read, that MP was a little less abrasive this offseason, so perhaps the tiger did change some based on player reception. But you aren’t going to get JC or Mooch out of this guy because that is what goes over best with 2019 players. There are still plenty of players that thrive under tough coaching and you see a lot of genuine love for the guys from MP too. We’ve seen a lot of those Agnew post TD return moments, but ultimately when that proved to be an anomaly on the field, a decision had to be made and so it has been. Ultimately I’m still 50/50 and wouldn’t be crying if it gets blown up this offseason. But I’m not going to spaz if it doesn’t either. Another 2019 season next year, and I’m ready to hop on the blow it up bandwagon for sure. But it wouldn’t shock me if another offseason and some tweaks and health get’s things back to a good direction with the top 10 defense we had at the end of last year coupled with the top 10 offense we had this year under Bev. TBD.
The fact that there’s a struggle behind the scenes is a sign that he’s gone.
Once again, Seattle is loving our cast off.
I used to have a boss that was famous for ending his sentences with, “Am I right?”. “Yes”, was the only correct answer.
He’s out of business, now. He was wrong more often than anyone dared tell him…except me. He fired me.
I led another service dept to a Chevrolet Quality Repair Challenge win a year and a half later.
He started trying to talk me into coming back a month later.
It’s going to be unreal once Patricia gets fired and the stories come out. The guy is a clown and it will be absolutely epic to hear players bash him when he gets fired. The only people and fans that support Patricia are the dinosaurs that think just like him.
The NFL has changed and folks like Patricia are behind the curve.
Caldwell was never a soft coach… it’s a funny narrative to throw around now. He treated his players like professionals. He didn’t baby them, nor was he a “hard ass”. The players respected Caldwell because he was also a professional. The players do not respect Patricia, and they quit on him the first training camp. I mean, the man isn’t even professional/smart enough to address his sexual assault case before he became a HC.
This is where we are as an organization. Fans supporting a guy who took over a winning team, who has them at 9-18-1, who is a walking billboard for homelessness and diabetes, a guy who sexually assaults females, a guy who doesn’t let players talk to family members/ opponents before games. A guy who Pats fans were jumping for joy when he left.
Patricia has been getting publicly pantsed for the world to see even before taking the field week 1 2018. The only ones who can’t see it are drunk on the Lions kool aid or are wearing rose coloured glasses.
Patricia is the biggest POS this organization has ever had. Even worse than Millen. At least Millen was a likeable person. Not a creep like Patricia.
So he goes back to NE and all those guys seem to not revolt but play well enough to probably be in another SB this year. Hey I’m not a McD fan at all. He totally screwed all the assistant coaches that were going to come with him to Indy, until he bailed at the last second after all the jobs were gone for them. Total dick move that will haunt him if he ever goes for a HC role again. That said, he has a job under the best HC in NFL history. The guy who could likely have his pick of the offensive mind litter. Yet he keeps McD. NE (and the type of players they roll with) have had a 2nd place finish in their Division TWICE, since 2001. All the other years they finished 1st. It’s not “just” about Belichick the human being. It’s about the TYPE of players mentally and physically they continue to roll with year after year.
Methinks if BB came to the Lions two years ago, the same guys that are gone under MP would be gone under BB. JMHO. If we want to build a successful franchise for the long haul, a way to do that is to bring in the types of players that continually make it so in NE. This is the painful part of bringing that vision into fruition.
The fan base couldn’t have been happier to get rid of him. Like usual you are wrong. 31st in the league in yards per play his last year in NE. He’s a joke. You should probably save yourself the embarrassment and stop backing him now.
So you’re saying he’s a guy who can admit his mistakes? J/K man… Great job on your Department win. Probably a very prestigious award. Should I buy a 2016 SS (the sedan with the LS3 in it?)
