The best cultures are ones where the employees hold themselves accountable. Democracy always beats a dictatorship.
It’s what needs to be done . You cant be a players Coach , well liked and still broom the shit out …That needs to be done and has been done and will continue to be done as it should be . Then and only then do you get to be a players Coach , a Coach who can reward and give preferential treatment to those that perform and who are special …Coach Bill Parcells did it best .He had 53 players on his rosters and he treated all 53 differently. It was not a democracy it was not about being even and just.
Bill Parcells " I treat every player fairly, not evenly "
The panzy whiners we have here , whoever they are must go .
The nonsense complaints , the social media bitching or passive aggressive attacks on the staff need to stop.
The judgmental view by players publicly on personnel choices and decisions needs to stop.
The normal or what is accepted has not worked here , culture change and a dismantling of this we have to have fun mantra needs to be crushed.
Win and keep winning and then and only then can things get fun and more lax .
We are still very much a work in progress and 2 years is not nearly enough to change a culture not this Detroit Lions culture.
I will be highly disappointed if both Quinn and Patricia are not given the contract length to make it happen .
The idea that Quinn could fire Patricia is a joke . They are a group deal one goes they both go . Quinn does not deserve to start over and pick a new Coach …he had his plan the second he came in , and had to wait 2 years to get it started so be it…Now make it happen or they should both be gone .
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This is true only if the Democracy is set on the same goal , and when a team of outstanding people and performers are set on a goal and not complacency .
A Dictator is needed to ween the shit out first and get the right people on board …Then you start a more democratic way of handling the team .
A democracy of shit and complacency breeds more of the same…we have had more than enough of that .
I’m surprised that more of the board’s resident troglodytes aren’t jumping in to say how great it is that Patricia is “getting tough” with players.
I think this is the only group left that’s really “pro-Patricia”, and they do a lot of mental gymnastics to try to justify their support. In their minds “Patricia is building a winner” and “Caldwell couldn’t win” in spite of objective fact not jiving with that particular version of “reality” that exists in their heads.
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I don’t believe that there was a culture problem when Caldwell was HC. We weren’t champs. But Caldwell built on top of what Schwartz built. We went from going to the playoffs, to going to the playoffs multiple times. The next step was obviously winning playoff games. I think after Mayhew, we needing a GM with experience leading a successful organization. Mayhew hired the right coach in Schwartz. Then hired a coach that won more. We were out of cap hell and needed to build the talent more. We needed to be accentuated. Not rebuilt. Quinn has torn it down back to the beginning of Schwartz’ era. But hired a coach who didn’t have the cache or leadership to take us to the next level. Caldwell’s first season we were 11-5. And that’s after a losing season. We are not that. It was a miscalculation by Quinn. One that should be paid with by the taking of his job. Because MP is too inexperienced, undisciplined and is an asshole (according to Valles). Bad mixture.
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Caldwell had to go but he got the franchise consistent decency for the 1st time in 20 years.
Smart regime would have built on that and took it to the next level.
The pieces were there.
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I’m not going to get into this too much (famous last words…I know) but here is what I think:
Valles was here for year 1 of Patricia. In leadership/mgmt positions its a lot easier to start tough and slowly loosen up than start easy and get tough. You set the tone.
With Patricia this his first HC job at any level. On top of that, this system he uses has historically taken time to implement. Not one season. Not two. Mulitiple seasons. People are like “oh Bill B only had one losing season with the Pats”. Yeah? Well look at his five seasons in Cleveland before you say that. Where he was fired after having 4/5 losing seasons and regressing back after year four. And its Cleveland where he sowed his oats as a first time HC. Where he failed before he succeeded.
That is certainly no guarantee of success for Patricia. But what we do know about that man is he isn’t lazy. People are acting as though he is late to meeting because he is irresponsible. I highly doubt that. Everything I read on him said the opposite before the hire. He stays night after night after night in the Pats facility sleeping on couches, pulling all nighters. He never stops working. I don’t think he is loafing around being late. I think he is staying late at one meeting trying to iron something out and it makes him late to the next one. My guess, and only a guess. But IMO more likely a case. And look, year 2 with Patricia he learned. Players said he was more relaxed and realized he might have went too far.
So what it comes down to is whether were willing to wait for him to figure it out, and whether the juice is worth the squeeze. Speilman seems to think it will be. That he is on the right track. How many times have you heard people say the Lions organization had its head up its ass? So I’m giving it one more year. Its tough to watch this, but if you know all this going in, you got to see it through. Let him build the culture he wants so it can flourish. And cross your fingers its worth the time.
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Bill Belichick measurably improved the Browns every year he was the coach.
His 1st 2 years they won 6 and 7 games. The year before he got there they won 3.
Keep in mind this was before free agency and the salary cap so he literally had 90% of a 3 win roster and doubled their wins.
His final year they were in the playoffs until it leaked the team was moving to Balitmore. See the NFL Films documentary Cleveland 95.
Sorry but the comparisons from Patricia in Detroit to Belichick in Cleveland don’t hold up.
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I just wanna know how changing the so called culture as so many say, Is gonna help the defense ?
Let’s see we were 9-7 when we started the culture change, then we went 6-10 adding another year of changing the culture. Now we’re gonna go 3 -12-1 and u want another year of culture change. At this rate of changing the culture we could see 0-16 again.
Maybe just a idea, Patricia should stop trying to change the culture and start changing his defense.
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Who are you aiming this at ? To see what the man , the Coach is trying to do does not remotely reflect how I would have done it or think it should have been done .
Any body from the old boards will tell you …no one supported Caldwell more than I did , I was the last person to want him gone . Quinn lied through his teeth in his false support for Caldwell from the day he arrived . Now Quinn got what he wanted… I can’t fault his take until his take and plan does not work . It’s trending badly as far as results in the win column go , but that does not mean the roster is not better or that the plan will not work .
Time, resources and patients to do what Quinn and Patricia want to do . Seeing that does not mean I would have went this route but support it I will and if he thinks this is the way to build a winner he should be afforded the opportunity to do just that.
It’s different than what I wanted but it does not make it wrong .
It’s not a troglodyte way of doing things when the most successful Coaches currently in the NFL fall in the disciplinarian category or the "my way or the highway " category.
Players need to adapt, not the coaching . The idea that the mental patients should control the ward or have a real say in how the plan is implemented is a joke . That a Coach should be okay with players undermining what they are doing or bitching on Social Media is acceptable …They are employees paid to do a job to the best they can regardless if they like the job , it’s a plus if they do not a requirement .
Who are you putting in this category besides BB?
On the other side (aka you catch more flies with honey) I see Pete Carroll, Mike Tomlin, McVay, Doug Peterson, Frank Reich, among others.
I see BB, Tomlin , Payton , J. Harbaugh and in a way Mc Vay …They do it their way and lead and plan and dish it out . Mc Vay was smart to hand the Defense over to Phillips and focus on being the micro manager he is .
you mean country club like when caldwell benched golden tate b/c he went into prima donna mode and then made him accountable and asked him to grow up and got the best out of him the rest of the season?.. like how patricia has so much respect he can barely eek out 3 wins in a season and hasn’t beaten a team with a winning record this year… but he beat the patriots last year so that’s a sign of greatness?
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The Caldwell ran a country club narrative is unreal. It’s almost as good as when people would crucify Caldwell for his sideline demeanour/ presence. Caldwell showed more emotion than Patricia. He has more of a sideline presence than Patricia. But we don’t hear a peep about that.
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jbc was such a joke of an OC that MP / BQ kept him another year when the ditched the rest of the staff. what does that say about them?
we get it you love MP/BQ and you will never give them any criticism or see the reality that is right in front of you.
why is it that only players are accountable for their actions and in football their records / performance but not coaches and GMs?
exactly!
he isn’t lazy but he’s so overweight he can barely walk on his own two legs for half a season. that’s a bit of a loss of self-control at the weight he’s carrying. he’s obese not just chubby.
everything you read about him contradicts everything we’ve heard from players who played for him in detroit. that he’s late to meetings but holds others to a completely different standard of accountability ain’t gonna cut it. others are working their asses off in that building not just the coaches. players respect stafford b/c he practices what he preaches and puts in the long hours. i would think you would model the behavior you expect from others if you wanna be respected. the word on patricia isn’t good. i’m not sure you can spin it any other way.
you can be tough / disciplined. but you need to be fair and you need to be respected. without respect you’re not going to be successful as a leader. you can’t force people to respect or like you with promises.
as tc said though. we’re burning too much time on culture here. it’s a problem but if we can’t agree on that, we can always come back to the simple fact that his D sucks and it’s patricia’s specialty. it’s gotten worse every year as he’s brought in his guys and got the loyalty he apparently wanted and needed.
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I’ll give you Harbaugh.
Payton—is from the Parcells tree but he allows his team to have personality.
McVay is too California to be a tyrant.
Tomlin is from the Dungy school.
This from SI’s Steeler Maven:
“Known as a players’ coach his entire career, the Steelers’ leader has earned the respect of his players throughout the years by delivering that same respect back.”
JBC was only retained because he appeared to be getting the best out of Stafford…but when he regressed he was rightful shown the door. But I guess since you love him we should have just kept him…he was such a hot commodity he got scoped up right away again right?
And please show me where I have ever said I love MP or BQ! They are NOT above criticism but unlike you I am not thick enough to think that bitching about them on a website is gonna change their dates…go ahead keyboard warrior wage the war that leads to their dismissal. I will save my energy for things that really matter. Thanks for being so over dramatic that since I don’t agree with you that I am a MP/BQ slappy.
Also since you know so much tell me when GM and HC stopped getting canned! Since you wanna exaggerate everything go ahead…but understand this MP is getting one more year like it or not, BQ may get more, I don’t know…but I do know that if MP flubs it next year like he did this year he will be held accountable and likely returning to the Pats as a special assistant to an assistant.
Is that clear enough for you?
But comparing what needs to be done or needed to be done by Tomlin when he arrived to what Patricia needs to do first in order to bring what he wants makes the two totallly different Patricia can’t be that guy yet , Tomlin never had to do what Patricia needed to do as Tomlin inherited a culture formed by Bill Cowher .
Patricia knows his window is limited, needing to be the tyrant and I do not think he is one in that respect, rather he knows and demands it’s done his way .I have no issue with this.
No one is as big as a micro manager than Patricia and Mc Vay …Dealing with the offense is a different world than dealing with the defense . It’s his Defense that requires guys to not ad lib and just do the job , stay in your lanes and follow the script …getting guys to be robots is not easy and getting the talent to run this Defense is not easy either .
Injuries have killed us these first two seasons , I think the future is bright .
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