How long does it take to learn as a coach?

Honestly I think we have 3 losses in a row that should be wins, all based on coaching decisions.

The Ravens, got great pressure with the front 4 and then quit doing it to go into prevent in a game where a field goal will win the game. up 4 points? go into prevent but with the BEST KICKER IN THE LEAGUE maybe don’t let them get chunks of yards to try and have the clock run out.

The Bears. First start for a rookie qb that just got embarrassed the week previous to the tune of 9! sacks. Lions solution? No pressure on said QB until the game was out of hand, and then when putting pressure on him it worked.

The Vikings. Going away from a working running game to a passing game that struggles, thus forcing you to pass anyway. Then…once again…where a field goal wins the game go into a 3 man rush prevent allowing completions down the field.

This team doesn’t have the talent to have coaching absolutely make the wrong decisions. Imagine the ravens/vikings games with a 4 man rush instead. Would it change things? who knows but a 3 man rush isn’t going to get pressure.

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Football is a match ups game. Aside from one bad play where Barnes whiffed on a chance to get Mattison for loss ended up in a 50 yard run and Jefferson’s contribution in the passing game I thought our defense was excellent yesterday considering the players we had on the field and Aaron Glenn deserves a lot of credit for this, they kept us in that game when we had no right to be in it.

I also think that Lynn is doing a decent job with one arm behind his back from a talent perspective and I think we have a lot of scope for improvement through the draft and FA next year as we have two solid and modern coordinators who will put players in a position to succeed.

But right now we really lack talent. I don’t think Goff is the answer in the medium term, his issues are clear and obvious but I would be interested to see what the offense and by extension Goff would look like if we had an elite WR like Jefferson out there, it would make everything look a lot smoother.

Campbell has a young roster with a lot of injuries, they have no real margin for error and due to a lack of talent will be volatile from drive to drive let alone game to game but the players are certainly playing for him and really liking the culture he is building. It needs time and the group need a win though

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The offense isn’t exactly like playing with one arm behind your back, we have a great TE our RBs is a really good one two punch. And our Oline is better then it has been and when healthy sould be really good. So the offense has alot of nice pieces. WR is the only group you can say we’re below avg. And our QB has some issues but seems to be getting better.

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The two most consistent players on offense in Decker and Ragnow are injured. The only WR on the roster to have more than 20 receptions in a season is also injured, the QB is trying to rebuild his confidence - I would consider these things which are limiting what Lynn can do from a match up perspective but they are things which can be easily enough rectified between guys getting healthy and next years FA and draft.

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So…. perfect coaching or the guy is a bum? Got it. In that case while we are firing this “clown” there are a few others around the league (Belichek) that need to be fired too for bad coaching decisions that lost games. Coaching is not an exact science (Madden be damned) and good coaches often make bad decisions based on what they see or what the “analytics” say. For the record, DC is a good coach that we would be ABSOLUTELY STUPID to get rid of on the basis of a season that anyone that knew anything about this team knew was going to be bad. He has a a team that has no quit and fights through every game. Add some pieces next year and we will have a whole new team. The “no quit DC culture” has been established.

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How long does it take a fan to learn what is a good or bad play call?

For all of the complaining going on, I think there are very, very few calls that DC would call a mistake, and the ones he would are probably ones we are not even talking about.

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Like letting the GOAT go.

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I’m not calling for DC to be fired, I like the guy. But he either needs to tell his DC to quit making the same mistakes, or he needs to if he’s involved in the playcalling.

I think we’d all agree running a prevent D with 0 pressure at the end to a team that just needs a field goal probably isn’t the smartest thing.

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I hate prevent! I’ve rarely seen it prevent anything except a win.

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So, get rid of a guy whose team has no business even being close in the game? Got it.

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I think the real question is how does one get open for 25 yards with eight guys guarding four or five.

We have the worst corners in the league, probably. Undrafted rookies starting.

I can’t fault him for going eight back. What is happening really shouldn’t be happening. Rushing more is one way. But that can also burn you.

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pressure is a secondarys best friend. even the best CBs can’t cover forever. If you have ‘less than’ CB and S then you need pressure to help them out.

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Hopefully the coaching gets better… It is rather frustrating to see that 3 man rush krap, at some point they must realize that these guys cant cover, so just get after the QB. The Lions ain’t got nothing to lose anyways… just go for it.

Coach hinted at this.
You think things are bad with 8 in coverage, you should see it with only 7.

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The crazy part is this situation is usually where you see a lot of INTs and sack/fumbles because guys can’t get open.

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It’s like people are just completely blind to reality here! DC is a successful coach by simply having this team competing and actually in position to win games given the absolute shit of a roster he inherited. I hear nothing but what a good job he is doing on ESPN and other sports shows and then come here and you’d swear we still had patty on the sidelines. I mean seriously who are some of these fans we have? I mean are there any former NFL head coaches/GMs/Asst Coaches in this group?

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Well, the problem is when you have talent as bad as ours, there aren’t many “good” coaching decisions to be made. On defense, we don’t have a strength to play to, so no matter what you do it’s gonna fail.

If the GM can’t get the Coach anything to work with, he’s never going to learn anything.

I would like us to try an entire game of trick plays, Ted Lasso style, however. It’s probably the only way we’ll get a W.

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Here’s my take on things. To answer the OP question, my first response would be, you never stop learning as a coach. You’d better be constantly adjusting on the fly, building on successes, learning from weaknesses, and gaining experience. Every day is going to bring new challenges, and you are always just an injury or two away from having to change your team’s strategy.

I understand we are 0-5, and it’s painful to watch. That being said, I think the Lions coaches are actually doing an outstanding job. Here’s the straight facts. We are basically an expansion team. Again. By that, I mean we have a few decent players that are mostly castoffs from other teams, and then we surrounded those with a couple draft picks from Holmes, but are also being forced to play kids who are still college level athletes. This is the part people are forgetting. The guys who are blowing plays, are NOT NFL players. The Lions are so young, they are essentially a college level Super Senior team!

Now, take that thought process, and factor in that the Lions have been competitive in every game, and actually in position to win a few of them. I still firmly maintain, SF is a fluke because SF let them up to protect their own players. However, the Lions fought right back. That’s a Campbell mantra. The Lions fought to stay in against Baltimore, and were winning. The Lions fought to stay in against Minnesota, and were winning.

The Dan Campbell Lions are going to be a tough out. If you let them get off of the mat, they will get back up and punch you back. They will make you show up and fight for 60 minutes. The problem the Dan Campbell Lions have, is they have NO TALENT, especially on the defensive side. That means, whenever the other team is forced into the corner, and put into a “gotta have it” moment, they will get it. They will get it because they have the talent to get it, and we don’t have the talent to stop it.

I will say, I hated the going for 2 at the end of the Minny game. I understand it, I just think it’s too big of a risk and not enough reward. My mind says, if you go for 2 and miss, game over. If you make it, there is still time for the other team to do what they did, a long FG beats you. If you kick the XP, you can still lose on a FG, but if they miss, at least you are now in OT. My mindset says if you are playing to trust your defense, then you should play to extend the game and bet on outlasting Minny. At any rate, we know what happened.

I still think the fact the Lions are playing competitive football with literal UDFA’s starting throughout the secondary, is very impressive. Rarely do I feel like our scheme is bad. I constantly see Lions in position to make plays. Of course there are mistakes, and remember a lot of these UDFA guys were only brought in to be ST players, and are now being asked to cover All Pro NFL caliber players. We should be getting run out of the arena, yet we hang tough.

My big question, is can Campbell keep the team together after getting punched in the stomach over and again. If he can, I am telling you, he is building a team that will have the heart of a warrior. However, as the losses pile up, it’s very easy to start going for broke, and lose your way, and the players will start checking out. That’s why I think Collins was let go so quickly. It was clear, he knew the losses were going to pile up and he didn’t even give half assed effort against GB. He was out there in uniform only. The Lions had to get him out ASAP, because that kind of cancer will quickly spread to other players.

This season is very hard to watch. I am as tired of the losing as everyone else, and it pisses me off that I am once again watching a team that literally are college level players. That being said, seeing guys like AJ Parker come out of nowhere, Tracy Walker bounce back, JRM finally show he belongs on an NFL field, Barnes starting to get playing time, I am seeing signs of life. It’s just too early for it to matter.

If anyone caught the postgame with Mike Zimmer, he actually said the Lions were pretty stout on defense. That’s a guy who knows a thing or two about defense too. He said the Lions do a good job of mixing up their coverages. Folks, there’s your testament that the coaching is on the right track. No one complimented Matt Patricia for mixing up his coverages. If the Lions coaches can teach a bunch of UDFA scrubs to come close to playing NFL football, now imagine what they can do when they actually get their hands on some real NFL talent to mold.

I’ll end my book on one more note. We fans are already conditioned to the fact that the Lions are just a stepping stone job, and the minute we have a coach who shows some ability, he is going to another team ASAP. I don’t think that’s going to happen this time. I think Campbell’s staff here really likes the fact they are all former players and are getting their chance to have a hand in the biggest rebuilding project in NFL history. These guys are all gaining experience together, and while a few will for sure move on to bigger jobs, I am curious how many end up staying because at least they know in Detroit, they’ve got someone who will let them coach guys the way they learned, and as former players, that’s a really big deal.

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I agree with your post except for one thing.

The Lions job is not a stepping stone job. Coaches who come here step right off a cliff lol.

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I’m a little surprised that some of you are upset about this season.

I get that there’s been some coaching errors and that there were a few losses that could have been wins but I’m actually enjoying this season. I’m seeing a team that is woefully undermanned, badly injured at key spots, really young and has a coaching staff the majority of which are learning on the fly yet this team is battling every week with teams that have a clear talent advantage and are playing their tails off despite being 0-5 largely on the backs of a lot of young guys who are showing progression from week to week.

This season was never about their record, it was about developing an identity as a tough team to play against and progression, getting better each week and being a team that’s better at the end of the season than they were to start. I expected some coaching errors, I expected some lack of player execution but I also expected some blowouts and there really haven’t been any yet (the Packers game was close for 3 quarters). Yeah it sounds weird to say that an 0-5 season is somewhat enjoyable but I’m into it, I’m feeling the culture slowly change. Whether it leads to bigger things down the road is another story altogether but right now, I’m enjoying the fight in this team.

To answer the question in the OP. I think it takes more than 5 games to learn as a first time head coach and ,yes, I’m aware that he was an interim before but this is HIS team now. I get it, it’s frustrating, but I think patience needs to be required here which I know Lions fans are sick of hearing after decades of having to be patient but it’s the reality of this situation which we knew going into the season.

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