They went hand in hand. As stated BQ and Mayhew didn’t give him much for a run game. But as soon as BQ brought his buddy in he went out and added RB talent immediately. but he wouldn’t do that for Jim C. If Jim had a Run Game BQ wouldn’t have been able to run him off because he wouldn’t have finished 9-7.
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Yes and I’m not sure BQ still don’t fire him by saying
The talent was there to go further in the playoffs.
I’ve decided to fire Caldwell and bring in Patricia who’s flexible game planning will bring out the best in our players and take the Lions to the next level Plus I used to sort mail with him. He’s a good guy
On gawd
@Richard_Parker i agree on Lombardi. I wonder how who why that decision was made - budget ? Attractiveness of job? - calling in a favor ?
I think they envisioned an offense akin to what the Saints were doing at that time. The Saints had one of the better offense in the NFL back then. It just didn’t work out.
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Lombardi still hasn’t risen passed OC and spent some tears rebuilding rep
So maybe it didn’t work because he was too green or Caldwell too involved or Lombardi is just not Sean Peyton as a play caller
The Ron Prince situation was definitely part of Jim Caldwell’s demise. It reminds me of Andy Reid in Philly. He promoted his buddy Juan Castillo to become defensive coordinator. Juan’s NFL career path was offensive assistant…tight ends coach…offensive line coach…then DEFENSIVE COORDINATOR.
It went as well as expected and Reid had to fire Castillo 1.5 years into his tenure as DC. But the damage was already done and Andy was fired at the end of the year. Andy actually fired Sean McDermott (Bills HC) and promoted Castillo.
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The thought of hiring McVay is a bit of hindsight. He was on teams radar as far as a developing coach to keep an eye out for, but he wasn’t a strong candidate to step in and build an entire offense from scratch with a new team. He was a 27 year old tight ends coach with 5 years of total NFL experience. Jay Gruden gave him the OC title when he arrived, but Jay was the real OC and play caller early in his tenure. Part of the reason why McVay was because the Gruden’s and the McVay’s are friends. Jon Gruden gave Sean his first low level NFL assistant job and Jay let Sean coach receivers when Jay was the HC of the Florida Tuskers.
Your post has gotten the most reaction, but I think it’s a very balanced account, though I quibble with the conclusion.
I don’t think Caldwell was set up to fail per se, but I think its crystal clear that a .563 win-rate which is the highest in lions’ history since the 50s wasn’t enough to keep his job, while Jim Schwartz, Matt Patricia and most Lions coaches (incl. Campbell in his first 3 years) were allowed to keep their gigs despite losing more games than JC. So, the bar was not an even one.
But really, Caldwell lost the momentum battle.11-5, 7-9, and then two 9-7s felt like 3 years of being nowhere near where he started. Whereas Schwartz and Campbell had growing win-rates (and MP had Bob Quinn) to cover their asses until they too lost momentum. Then they were fired too.
Campbell is destroying the momentum battle. 3-13-1, 9-8, 12-5 plus 2-1 in the playoffs!
But, if the pattern holds true, then if Campbell goes a couple years in a row below his best year, then he’ll lose the momentum battle too (though a SB victory buys you an additional year). Let’s see how long this regime maintains excellence. I’m hoping its 20 years or so.
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Yeah but the rosters were nowhere where he started either. We lost suh, levy, tulloch, fairly injured etc. it’s not just about numbers. Holmes has had the 3 top 5 drafts in a row. Not sure that’s a fair comparison.
You think we make the nfc championship game if we drafted the equivalent of ameer Abdullah instead of Gibbs and tees tabor instead of Brian branch or tavai instead of pascal etc?
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I complained bitterly about that while it was happening. BQ made it harder every year! Then they fired Caldwell and saw what the team was without him - terrible.
So, I agree, he may have stalled out because his GM sucked (and wanted to fire him the whole time). Which goes back to your original point. JC was screwed from jumpstreet.
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McVay or any coordinator since or who has yet to be hired
I only used McVay since at the time he’d be up and coming
Obviously a smart football mind
He may have had success learning ropes from Caldwell.
It doesn’t seem like Stafford had any special OCs and Caldwell might’ve been more involved in offense then people gave him credit for
It appears Lombardi wasn’t ready and JBC isn’t one now
I see Dan and Brad as having the best HC-GM relationship in the league. During interviews they allude to having discussions on a regular basis. I’d guess they spend at least 5 nights a week meeting up to discuss the team. During draft season more like 7 days/nights.
They are lock in step with there vision and have great respect for each other. They know where the line is between there responsibilities and defer to the other when decisions fall in one’s responsibility.
In hindsight, I don’t see Caldwell being able to work with Brad nearly as well as Dan has.
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I love the way they understand what the other guy is thinking and they play off of eachother. Brad knows who Dan wants and is willing to be aggressive to get it. But Dan doesn’t overplay that hand and is willing to be patient and trust Brad’s instincts. Its weird (in a good way) that on draft day Dan acts like Brad is in charge while Brad acts like Dan is in charge. So since both of them are giving the other guy the respect of being the final decision maker, neither guy gets upset when the power is used.
Ultimately its Brad’s show on draft day. He is the boxer in the ring, and Dan is in his corner. But between every round Brad is sitting on the stool saying things like “you want me to knock this guy out for you, Dan? Cause I will do it. Just say the word and I will make it happen! And sorry for taking that rib shot last round. It hurts like hell, just like you said it would. I know you didn’t want that. I won’t let it happen again. I promise.”
Whenever I watch Snead and McVay I get a similar vibe of the synergy between the two guys. Different wave length, but similar synergy where both guys have a strong belief in eachother and they have a deep understanding of what the other guy is thinking. I feel like if shit were to hit the fan (again) both guys (Brad and Dan) would fall on the sword for eachother. Brad would would say he failed Dan by missing on players and not providing the proper level of talent for the task at hand. Dan would say he failed Brad by not coaching the talent well enough from a development and scheme standpoint. That may not happen in reality. But its powerful when you feel like the other guy is pulling out his sword to fall on it, not to stab you in the back with it.
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What I like about MCDC and Holmes marriage is that they have done an amazing job in the draft and approach to the draft.
The first couple they took best available along the lines (Sewell and Hutch). Then I really loved last years draft by targeting the best players in the draft in traditionally (last 10 years) relatively fringe positions. Kind of filling in the cracks so to speak. And then this draft targeting CB and also in free agency to try to fix that positions relative weakness to the league.
September can not get here soon enough.
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It is definitely a fair comparison. The point of my topic was to compare talent. And it shows how much better Dan Campbell, Ben Johnson, AG, and the rest have been.
If we’re looking at multiple years rather than their best years, I would say Caldwell has a unfair advantage because with DC they were built almost from scratch. If you look at 2022’s 9 win season vs Caldwell’s 9 win seasons, Caldwell had a supremely better roster.
Even comparing multiple seasons, the two biggest names that were gone was Suh, and Levy. But Suh was replaced with Ngata. Granted, Ngata wasn’t the same player, but he was still playing at a high level. They had KG playing at a near elite level, Golden Tate, and Marvin Jones was very good. Slay was a top 5 CB, Glover Quinn was excellent, and Diggs was very good.
Even MP had Snacks who was the whole defense at that point. The Lions were a team on the rise, and I agreed Caldwell had to go. They weren’t advancing with him. But of course BG, and MP tore the house down.
Lombardi was the worst i’ve ever seen, and blamed the players. Austin’s bend don’t break was the worst. Caldwell wouldn’t fire anyone. Mayhew failed. Stafford loved JBC, and granted Stafford threw fewer INT’s. But they held Stafford on a leash until they would unleash him in the 4th QTR were he basically took over.
BQ wasn’t a terrible GM, but he, and MP aren’t even in the convo because they flat out destroyed this team.
I’m just really happy with DC, BH, BJ, AG, and the rest. We’re all scared they’ll leave.
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Let me say this about Caldwell.
I would rank him as likely the best Head Coach in the last 40 years outside of MCDC. He was organized and the team could execute. He had a system and a plan. And I agree that he was kind of had cuffed with some players while MCDC was and is green lighted to swap out any and all players. Now that MCDC has a whole roster of players he has hand picked (outside of I think 3) he has no excuses and also has players that buy into his plan and way of coaching.
I liked Caldwell. I was not a fan of dumping him at the time. The Lions were at least watchable under Caldwell which has not been true under many other HC during the last 40 years.
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I still feel like Quinn sabatoged Caldwell to open the door for Patricia. The way the RB position was handled was GM malpractice that suddenly corrected itself the minute Patricia was hired.
What’s funny is that we essentially have hired a Campbell a Sean Payton disciple who has recreated the Saints offense from that era. Our offense looks a lot like the early 2010s Payton offense in New Orleans.
Except LaPorta may be better than Jimmy Graham.
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My gosh I couldn’t handle the Detroit 49’ers, the Detroit Bucs, the Detroit Titans, the Detroit Saints (twice, not including now). the Detroit Colts, and the Detroit Patriots.
Although there’s some truth to this, I don’t really see it. I mean, you can add Gibbs to the Alvin Kamara - Saints comparison too. But it looks a lot like Brad, and DC are creating their own. I don’t see Tampa 2’s, wide 9’s, West coasts, dink and dunk, bend don’t break, desperate attempts trying to find their Jimmy Grahams, and Ron Gronkowski’s… the past coaches knew nothing outside of what their scheme’s were and would be fired before they changed anything.
DC’s crew plays aggressive on both sides, and will make changes if needed. There is no “style” other than running the ball. They adjust to players. They fit the players where they’ll most succeed. Something that’s never happened before like ever.
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Wasn’t it Joe Lombardi that wanted Calvin Johnson in the slot?
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