Based on what’s publicly out there, the red flags do seem to stem mostly from that–immaturity and the ego that comes from being treated like a rock star since your teens. Way back in this thread, I mentioned that I’d be less concerned if we had a strong culture and locker room. But you do have to weigh the full equation. Since we don’t have that culture (yet), and the locker room is a big question mark, it’s dicey. Who in that locker room has the experience and credibility and track record as a winner to get in a young punk’s face and make him understand how you do things in the NFL? Maybe Flowers? Jarrad Davis?
Our coaches are definitely looking to build a strong culture, and I think they’ll do it, but it doesn’t happen overnight. And if one of your foundational players is an immature me-first guy, without other respected team leaders to keep him in check, it could undermine what they’re trying to do. It’s why I expect us to prioritize leadership and character and guys who’ve been captains on winning teams in this draft. There are definitely guys who are worth rolling the dice on, but in the very early stages of building a clubhouse, it does give you pause.
I think this is where our coaches themselves make a difference in that culture. Guys like Glenn understand the importance of chemistry, and the coaches themselves can get up in their grill. Do you see any rookie blowing off what a Pro Bowl NFL player and Defensive Coordinator is telling you?
I’m incredibly impressed with the coaching staff Dan Campbell has put together, and I think it will make a huge difference. But you can’t just rely on coaches to build your culture for you, because there’s always going to be a gulf separating coaches and players.
Partly, that’s just the gulf that exists in any organization, especially a unionized one, between management and the people they’re managing. But in football, there’s also just always a difference between the people saying how things ought to be done and the people who have to go out and actually do it.
You need great coaches, and I’m super encouraged that we have some. But you also need leaders on the field and in the locker room, guys working alongside the younger players, earning their trust and showing them how it’s done by doing it. Even when the coaches are former players, still think gotta have both.
Honestly I am shocked that no one is recognizing he finished his degree (in three years), has a two year old son now, opted out to protect his family (certainly reasonable knowing what we didn’t know at the time) and yes…he did a few things that are consistent with being young.
As I read comments I feel like I am reading about Charles Rodgers. A kid that never came close to finishing his degree and clearly had a dependency on pot (I have ZERO issue with smoking at all) and one who also had a diluted urine test at the combine in what, 2003?
Getting the degree is a big one for me. He did it early while playing for a big time program. Color me impressed.
Salt, meet wound… Ironically I met both of them. We were on a flight to Detroit when they were probably coming in from being drafted as they were seated behind me in coach. I stepped back and welcomed them to Detroit as on the sly as possible. They were both excited and happy. Right before we took off, a voice came over the speaker for Mr. Fair and Crowell to come to the front of the plane. They never came back so it’s apparent they got the upgrade. Always thought that was sort of funny. They hadn’t hit the big time yet.
We have hearsay here. I’m not basing my opinion of someone on hearsay. Especially when it’s coming from an unreliable source who keeps changing his story.
Parsons wasn’t even in his original complaint and wasn’t in his lawsuit. He added in Parsons and 2 other popular players on his counter stories. Only after his original story didn’t work.
All this story does is force your scouting dept to dig deeper and look harder. If they come away satisfied after that than I’m ok with the pick.
Personally I think he’s the best defensive player in the draft and the type of player who gives your team an identity. I’m not passing on a player like that without doing due diligence.
people spouting off at the mouth and trying to tarnish Parson’s name and image…today people are so fickle…they can claim you did any number of things and then your guilty.
we don’t have shit on our defense that concerns anyone due to skill, ability, speed, power, or talent.
telling you, I’d draft this kid ! what you think there was never any sleazy bastards in the NFL that DID worse than anything Parsons is being “questioned” for ?
my only hang-up, is that he didn’t play last year…BUT I’ll keep this guy as ONE of my favorites to be a Lion.
With the draft as with anything, we need to remain as neutral as possible and try and see both sides of the argument. When I first started watching Parsons I was like you, he was instantly one of my favorite players and I wanted him to become a Lion.
So I have to fight against justifying his behavior and some of the other red flags because I still very much want him on our team. On the flip side for those people who for some reason don’t like Parsons as a prospect, they need to work to understand the many things he could bring to our team.
If it comes out that this is just some bad decisions and college tomfoolery, then I’m all for drafting him. Hell, he’d be on the top of my wishlist. But equally if it turns out to be more than that, I think you have to pass no matter how much you love him as a player.
I admit that a lot of this stems from my love of Rueben Foster’s tape and his subsequent catastrophic career. No two cases are alike and need to be treated individually, but most of the pre-draft rumors about him were simlarly immaturity-based, even some accusations of bullying by teammates. Their cases are very similar.
I also think you have to factor in positional value. You have said Quinn had didn’t pay enough attention to it and I agree, and if that’s the case we should give extra weight to the OT, QB and CB options available here. And WR too, over off-ball linebacker.
Foster was the absolute most punch-drunk college player I’ve ever heard in my life. AND there were reports of his teammates taking him aside to try to convince him to protect himself better. After our Jhavid Best experience, no amount of tape could have convinced me to take Foster. I’ve told the story around here before, but I was on a jobsite that had a radio going in the background. Foster was about to appear on Mike and Mike’s show. We were talking about football and I shared my opinion of Foster and then goofed on him a bit in a Mike Tyson voice, going with a whole “what was the question” bit. I kid you not, only a few minutes had passed and Foster had a “I’m sorry, what was your question” moment. It was funny, but not, if you know what I mean. It was funny as everyone looked over at me when he did it, but not funny when you know the cause.
I don’t imagine Parsons is a consideration for our club. Among other things, an ILB at pick-7 in a year when 4 QB’s could go before our pick is worse positional value than a TE at 8 or a CB at 3.
That is one adorable baby/toddler. I can definitely understand in the early days of the pandemic not wanting to bring the virus hime to your little one. For me personally the opting out isn’t an issue. It all comes down to the bullying and what the real situation was.
If we want to attack hearsay then our analysis of the court proceeding should be taken with a handful of salt.
This isn’t the only person who knows him IRL and expressed concerns along the same line. The consistency of those concerns happened for a reason.
100% agree on the last point. The Lions have the resources to investigate, form own opinion and should. I just think writings on the wall here. Time will tell.
Sometime there is no correct answer… well I guess we could have drafted zach Cunningham in the first. But people would have thrown a shit fit when he was considered 2and or 3rd round talent. I remember a few liking him on this board but even they saw him as a lesser prospect than Davis
I agree… for me all this hearsay BS does is force teams to look closer. Which I view as a good thing.
We all know the Lions tend to shy away from character concerns. So if the Lions doe their due diligence and come away happy then I’ll be ecstatic if they take him.
If they choose to pass on him I would love WR Smith, and after those two I’m leaning towards in order … WR Chase, Sewell, and then DE Gregory Rousseau at 7OA.
I’m not opposed to Slater, Surtain, Kwity Paye, or Barimore in a trade down scenario.
The two players I really like are Parsons and Smith. I’m hoping one ends up a Lion.
I think opting out can only be looked at thru the lens of a particular player in a particular situation. AKA case by case. I would never have a blanket rule about guys who opt out of various things.
I think how a player answers the questions says a lot about the player too. Here is why Parson said he opted out.
"While I felt safe with the health and safety standards as we returned to Penn State for workouts, the potential risk to the health and wellbeing of my son far outweighed my urge to play football season.
And there was a law suit against the team and locker room. One that he was not initially part of but got named in later on. It wasn’t a bad thing to separate himself from that situation and to concentrate on the NFL.
Some might see his reasons as a sign of maturity. Something he had been accused of not having.
It doesn’t surprise me at all. Most crappy adults were crappy teenagers. It’s rarely the other way around where model teens become losers later on. Sure some young people get into trouble and mature, but not many get filthy rich by 20. If I’m paying someone six million dollars or more a year before they even put my teams’ uniform on I’d want to make sure they weren’t a risk. A top ten bust, where you have multiple directions you could go, can be a franchise killer and even more so if they are a distraction to the rest of the team.