If we get 2 CB’s with our first 4 picks it will mean this team is not serious about competing next season. You will be lucky if 1 of the 2 comes around in their first season. Old article but it really breaks down why CB’s/DB’s have a hard time making the transition to the pro’s. Okudah was a “consensus” can’t miss CB. Well, he can and has. Doesn’t mean he can’t get better but the time on that clock is clicking down rather quickly.
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The beauty about grabbing two rookie CBs NOW is that it is likely that neither guys plays a TON early on as they adjust. We still have Jerry Jacobs and Okudah as well as Luca Chase and we might bring back Will Harris for vet. minimum too.
Your CBs will have to earn their playing time. Nothing will be handed to them. And yet these young guys will increase the competition in the CB position group as well as giving the Lions a TON of options at CB for YEARS to come. Hell, one of these young guys might make Okudah expendable.
I think the Lions are not serious about competing if they out for a veteran CB who is expensive as I see that as a cheap fix that may not be a fix at all if the free agent CB plays poorly here. THIS is the year to make the investment at CB while we have Jerry Jacobs and Okudah, not next season. The talent is there this draft and we can get a 5th year option at CB. We have two veterans to work with them in Jacobs and Okudah and we will not lck for options for years to come if we make this proper investment now.
Bringing in cheap value veteran CBs is okay but hard and we have a lot of transition every year. We are likely to turn down Okudah’s 5th year option meaning in 2024 we are really in trouble at CB. Rookie CBs might take time to develop but we can give them that time in 2023 while we enjoy the cheap contracts and the flexibility this investment will give the Lions at CB.
If you are serious about fixing this defense we have to rebuild this position group and the best way to do that is to draft guys and develop them now.
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I would be surprised if they turn down his 5th year option.
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There is no time, there is only now. The “wait” means we have how many other contracts are aging and will have to be upped? If we aren’t in “Win Now” mode, we are in “Lose Now” mode, there is no in between.
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Not to some. I said it was a mistake to draft a CB in the top 5 unless they run a 4.3 40. The reason being, as your article describes, the transition is tough BUT, speed is a difference maker. Having the speed to make up for a mistake can be the difference between a 10 yard gain and a 60 yard TD. Rookies are going to make mistakes.
If we DON’T add a pair of DB’s in 2023 (either in free agency or draft), then we are NOT serious about competing in 2023.
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I notice you said “DB’s” and you never qualified it to the first 2 rounds. These are 2 different discussions. With re to Okudah, personally I thought we were kind of stuck with the pick, plenty of us didn’t want a CB that hi but also understood no one was knocking on our door and we got what we got.
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This is hyperbole. What if they’re both Sauce Gardner? It would completely change our defense. And don’t act like Sauce was some obvious star, at this point in the process he was a mid-first-rounder, just like Cam, Gonzalez, Porter, Ringo, etc…
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I was referring to what you said about the first 4 picks. We need to draft a pair in the first 2 rounds UNLESS we are able to get a quality player in free agency.
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Really? You wouldbe surprised if we turned down his 5th yar deal? A guy who was just benched on Sunday? Once Slay6 was up and running I don’t remember him ever playing so poorly he was benched.
Okudah has not played well enough to have his option picked up at this point. Now, he could still turn it around and be offered an extension but I see no upside to the Lions picking up his option at this point.
And Casanova, we can agree to disagree. I think now is the PERFECT time to invest heavily at CB while we have Jacobs and Okudah. We will then have cheap and viable depth for years to come and likely viable starters in 2023 or 2024.
I am very, very wary about free agent CBs. Bly was a HELL of a pick up but that doesn’t overcome my memory of free agent busts like Leigh Bodden. Phillip Buchanon was a problem too. Drayton Florence was also an issue years back. For other teams guys like Nnamdi Asomugha.
I am VERY wary of a free agent CB being better than Okudah OR Jacobs at this point. The ghost of J.C. Jackson in 2022 also is a caution flag for me. The Chargers gave this guy HUGE dollars and he SUCKED, as benched, injured then arrested.
Overall great teams don’t have sustained success by building teams around free agents. Draft, develop, enjoy the contract then lock down key guys to second contracts. THAT is the formula. If you pay a high priced free agent you are trying the hands of the franchise for years say if Okudah becomes good and we want him back, say Jacobs becomes great ad we want him back…a fat free agent deal for an aging guy makes retaining those guys difficult BUT…two top rookie CBs do not tie your hands at all.
Agree to disagree if you would like but I don’t see value in a high priced free agent cornerback at this point. Not with this depth at CB in this draft and with Jacobs and Okudah on the roster.
I am down on Okudah BUT…he is 24 in February and coming off a terrible knee injury in 2022. I am just not picking up his contract at this point but if turns the corned in 2023 I am open to locking him down long-term still. I see Okudah like I see LBer Devin Bush for the Steelers. The Steelers have handled that situation perfectly and I expect the Lions to follow that path.
I argued against Okudah because the guy I wanted, Simmons, was taller, heavier AND faster than Okudah. I couldn’t believe we were drafting a slower grabby CB at #3 overall.
I still think the Lions are using Okudah wrong. I think his best position would be S as he is much much better when his eyes are towards the line of scrimmage. He’s gotten bigger/stronger since the injury and likely slower as well.
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Okudah was playing well for the first 12 games of the season and has fallen off in the last 3 games. I think he’s hit a wall, similar to what rookies coming from college sometime encounter.
He played 9 games under Patricia in his rookies season, IIRC. He missed essentially all of his second season and busted his ass for a full year to get back and play well in his third season. Some rest this off-season plus his first year playing on a viable team plus the growth often seen in young CBs should be enough to make an $11M 5th year contract for Okudah a risk worth taking, IMO.
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You might be right on the $ Sofatso regarding Okudah. I sure want Jeff here long-term and I do believe his best days are ahead of him.
To the point of the thread I DO like Gonzalez a lot. Could be a very nice addition to the roster.
To me to win long-term in the NFL you need great coaching, great schemes (Glenn is on the hot seat), a solid OL and DL, a great WR group, solid RBs, solid LBers and a good to great secondary. The Lions are building all these things.
I see our secondary as the weak point of the roster, even over LBer. You might play 4 CBs in certain situations and right now we just aren’t good enough there.
Gonzalez might be a part of the long-term solution at CB.
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I am not seeing the downside to picking up his option. Its not like the old days when it was guaranteed money. You can pick up a guys option and still cut him without penalty now. It just keeps his rights for an extra year so you have some flexibility in how to deal with him. Right now Okudah’s 5th year option is only $600k more than what we are going to be paying him in 2023 anyways.
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I think the downside of cutting him that way would be loss in compensatory formula or possible trade value.
You can’t trade a guy that you don’t have under contract. Are you saying trade him before next season?
It’s hyperbole if there have ever been 2 CB’s drafted in the first 2 rounds by the same team that = Sauce Gardner. And BTW. even if that HAS happened what, pray tell, are the chances that it happens again? LOL, why would I “act” like anything other than stating that the chances are 0%. LOL, would getting the next Aaron Donald and Parsons change our D? Actually it is YOUR contention, “What if they’re both Sauce Gardner?” that is the very definition of hyperbole.
Except we literally have an example of someone being drafted last year being that good. How can it be hyperbole if it literally just happened?
And if you had said “I think it’s shortsighted to draft 2 CBs with our first 4 picks” I wouldn’t have said anything. That’s your opinion and you’re entitled to it. But to say it means “the team is not serious about competing next season” is intentionally inflammatory and hyperbolic.
Also, much like WRs are now hitting the ground running in the NFL when it used to be you were hoping for a third-year breakout, CBs are starting to do it more and more too. They’re just seeing so many more passes in college. Besides Sauce, Surtain has been good right from the jump and so has Horn, though his rookie season was interrupted by injury. He’s been gangbusters since he’s been back. Stingley was already following an opponents’ best WR too before he got hurt. 100% of the CBs drafted in the top 20 the past two years has had at least an above average rookie year, and at best is all-pro. That doesn’t sound like hyperbole to me.
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Bull shit, it is intentionally true. In what world are you interjecting Sauce into a conversation about 2 CB’s being taken in the first 2 rounds and expecting it to mean anything? Did you read my link on how difficult it is for CB’s to adjust to the NFL, yeah, I guess that would be a no. So what happens is that we are this close to the playoffs but instead of getting that safety, or LB or OG that could walk right in and start and contribute we get someone who isn’t likely not only to start but to see much playing time. LOL, giving examples of players that had above average “rookie” years, you’re pissing on my leg and telling me it’s raining. WTF , where does “above average rookie year” land you in the REAL stats category of how you were actually ranked at the end of the season? And again, Sauce Gardner twice in any draft is hyperbole and past that is total bull shit. How about you just admit that instead of rolling the dice we stick to getting the players who have the best chance to be immediate contributors to a team that can make the playoffs if they don’t do anything stupid?
We’re talking about a team that traded up in the 1st to pick Jamo.
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Yes.