QB Plan for '23+'24?

The War Room Detroit Lions — The Den
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Just curious- as you’ve seemed to come around on JG a bit of late….

What if the Rams go 4-13 this year… and then 8-9 next year?

What if the Lions go 9-8 this year…. and then 12-5 next year…

  • I only ask because the Rams were a playoff winning team with a 10-6 record…. They added Stafford, Michel, OBJ, had the OL healthy, Von Miller etc. they won it all… a few personnel losses, and injuries- DUMPSTER FIRE!!!

Goff took over a shit Rams team with a lame duck coach, and learned a new scheme year 2…. They had personnel losses and injuries, but never won less than 9 games in LA after his partial rookie year.

  • now Goff is in Detroit- joining a rip to the studs rebuild with all new coaches and schemes…. Over his past 20 games he’s 10-9-1 with 33 tds and 9 ints…. We are trending up.

Since Goff looks to be doing the same here in year 2 that he did in LA, and Cousins has been better without him in Minny, than he was in Wash… and it’s possible that in 3 years with Stafford he will have 1 ring- and 2 losing seasons….

At some point don’t we sway the credit to Goff, Cousins, Stafford? Mcvay has accomplished a lot, but he’s also gotten to field a roster that has borrowed max future resources more so than any other team.

If we nearly miss the playoffs this year, and make them and win a playoff game next year- AND MOVE ON FROM GOFF- I’m bet a new curse starts

The kid is a class act in his prime. He’s playing pro bowl football…. Period! He’s an awesome teammate, his style will let him play 10 more years likely, and he’s on the Payton Man of Year list-

Mahomes
Burrow
Allen
Hurts
Herbert
Lawrence

I want nothing to do with 250M to a running QB who got hurt back to back years…. I want nothing to do with Watsons ego or drama, or contract, or the draft capital they gave up.

Again- Goff was in the SB at age 23- he can get there because he’s been there well before his prime, and without his two best weapons.

If we make the SB next year, and we are missing Jamo and ASB, I wouldn’t say we can’t win WITH GOFF, I’d say we can’t with without 2 of our best players against the other best team in the nfl.

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22

Careful Lyonfan. You’re approaching sacred territory

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23

Time to strike what? Bryce Young will go number one…. Take him out of conversation.

Guys like Levis and Richardson couldn’t win or produce in college. If you thought Fields was raw, these guys are far more raw.

Inaccurate QBs with cannons shouldn’t be considered viable options because of the miracle of Josh Allen. Far more of those end up like Jamarcus Russell, Jeff George, David Carr, Daunte Culpepper, Brady Quinn, Jay Cutler, Kyle Boller, and of course Ryan Leaf….

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This thread is right after my own heart.

I have six QBs right now I would trade Goff for with no reservations. Mahomes, Allen, Herbert, Lawrence, Hurts, Burrows.

I would consider Watson and Jackson and Rodgers guys who are complicated. Huge contracts and not sure what you are getting, but on the surface much more talented than Goff. Would take Rodgers in a second if I didn’t have to give up much and knew he wants to come here.

Regardless, we aren’t getting any of those guys.

I put Goff in the next tier of good-but-flawed quarterbacks. Tua, Stafford, Cousins, Carr, Fields. Not sure where he falls here, but I would say closer to the top than bottom.

So with a guy who is on the cusp of top third QBs in the league, even while flawed it is really hard for a contending team to replace him. If Holmes/Campbell find a guy they love and want to develop for a year or two then, yeah, for sure. But planning to replace Goff without an idea of who that replacement might be seems like a bad idea.

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I pretty transparent as to what I’d do….

A) I’ve been swayed to Jalen Carter if he dominates on tape in the playoff

B) if Anderson tests off the charts, and is there, then I’d add to a strength. Hutch across from young Von Miller…. Yes please

C). Trade down- get a 3rd and and a 2024 first from a team like Carolina.

Take a Joey Porter Jr or Ringo, the Bijan Robison. Not only areas we need to improve- but areas with have no continuity. Only Swift, Okudah, and Jacobs of note are signed for even next year. Adding 5 years of Bijan and Ringo quickly changes that…

  • still have 2 picks in 2…. Calijah Kancey and best Oluwatimi…

  • two picks in 3…. Jack Campbell and Xavier Hutchinson.

Rounds 5, 6, 6 we get QB, K, and OT

We’d still have 2 firsts next year and one will be a bad Carolina team starting a rookie QB- so likely a top 10 pick

Could easily move to top 5 if we wanted to… or Goff balls out and we draft LT and Sun round 1

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I believe in investing in the QB position as well.
It is just too important to have only 1 competent QB… and a team can’t pay 2 vets at QB.

The only thing about waiting until the 2024 draft and hoping that a 1st rounder is ready to take over for Goff early… is that the hit rate still isn’t that high on 1st round QBs.

I’d like to see a Derek Carr type of extension.

Carr is due to make top 10-15 money for a QB in ‘23, 24, 25 —- if he is still on the team.

However, the Raiders can release him before 2/15/23 (3 days after Super Bowl)… and won’t take a big cap hit (only $5.625 mill in prorated SB).

I’m not sure Goff would agree to a deal like that…
but I am note sure he would get much better on the open market either.
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The list of 6 are all 6’1” plus and 215 pound plus specimens. Most have big arms, and also threw 35 plus tds there last year in college. Only Josh Allen bucks that trend on production.

I know Bryce Young didn’t have a true Alabama cast this year. But how many other QBs get to play with that in college?

CJ Stroud is the closest thing to appearing a Franchise QB in stature and resume’, but he really lacks a likability and fire. He has the same soft aloofness I saw in Tua…. When he was lighting it up early with Waddle and Ty Hill he had some energy but it’s kind of wavered a bit of late.

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Agree all day… DC know did the lockeroom loves Goff or not. Football teams are often divided on QBs or between O and D… we seem galvanized. Imagine pissing on a Pro Bowl season, a playoff run in year 2 of nuclear rebuild- then drafting a high risk prospect with some warts, and it busting. That would be SOL like a muther

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strike doesn’t mean they will succeed. I agree brother, any QB is a crapshoot. moreso tha later and later in the draft you are.

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I actually think the plan is to take a QB with one of our two first rounders this offseason.

Its an unpopular opinion, but I think that is what will happen. I get why some may not like this direction. But I think it makes a lot of sense.

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This has always been my stance on Goff. Literally I have never preached move on from him. What I have preached is not to sign a QB in the NFL to the ridiculous contracts they get. I don’t want to get into this again and I’m sure you don’t want to hear it again.

If you are of the belief that Goff is one of the best QBs in the league then the debate is pointless.

I will however debate that the current organization is doing pretty much everything right. They are getting the most out of EVERYONE. And because of that, I believe they can make a winner out of a 1st round QB, with a year of experience under his belt, ready to take over a 49ers type roster. In which you aren’t paying a fortune for a Jared Goff. There is little reason to believe with what the staff has shown, that they won’t get the absolute most out of their players.

I’m taking a 2024 rookie, who had the opportunity to watch an A+ organization and staff, along with a professional QB, for a full year as my starter in 2025. Over Jared Goff and his potential massive extension every time. That’s not going to change. I, as I’m sure you have too, have watched a ton of football. And Jared Goff is not the type to warrant the money he’s going to command if everything you stated comes to fruition. And I believe it will too.

Huge QB contracts handicap and ruin longevity of a franchise. It sucks but it honestly is the truth. There are very few exceptions, and I don’t need to see more to know Jared Goff isn’t one of them. Love what he’s doing, but I have zero reservations as to him being here beyond 2024.

edit oh and for about the 25th time homie :wink:, I wouldn’t take Lamar Jackson or Justin Fields types if you handed them to me. Not the type of quarterback I’m looking for whatsoever.

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The team you get drafted too means more than anything. If we are indeed a playoff team following 2024, the chances of our rookie QB succeeding goes way up. The reason rookies bust so often at the position is because they take over trash franchises. We aren’t going to be in that category.

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This is an awesome thread. Partly because we are legitimately talking about championships. For years I have said it takes two great drafts to build a championship team. Lions just had theirs, and are absolutely loaded with young and in-prime players. Not without holes, but when you have young stars at a number of positions - WR, OL, DL in the case of the Lions, you are far ahead of many teams.

I hate the idea of a “plan” to draft any position in the first round. Draft guys who will help you win championships. If that QB is there, so much the better.

This is true. The alternative is the Rams or Buccaneers pathway which may or may not lead to a championship, but which always leads to a ruinous rebuild.

This doesn’t have to be the case with Goff though. Maybe it does. Don’t know. But if Goff is willing to accept a generous contract that doesn’t reset the market then he is a guy they can continue to win around. If not then I agree, need to move on.

I wrote above that Jackson is complicated and I put Fields in the same category. Talented but complicated. I have no idea if a team can really win with them. Same goes for Murray to an extent. But could have said the same for Hurts, which is why I think Fields still has a chance. If he can lean on his athleticism long enough, he just might learn to be a really good QB. Questionable whether Jackson ever got there.

I don’t buy this. Yes, it worked with Mahomes and there are other examples (Jackson, Roethlesberger) but it is so rare for a playoff team to turn their fortunes over to a young player that it is difficult to know how much roster quality determines the trajectory of a rookie QB. cf Pickett, Lance, Jones

Pretty sure that talent and coaching play a much bigger role. Lawrence looks like he will be a superstar and look what he went through last year.

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It makes a lot of sense?

I predict if you combine the last 2 drafts, and next 3 drafts, there might be 2-3 total QBs that will accomplish more by age 28 than Goff has….

People lazily try and use Alex Smith as a standard argument for the “upgrade” approach… Yet Alex Smith didn’t have a winning record once til year 6 in the league… year 7- his BIG YEAR in SF he had 3,100 yards and 17 TDs with 61% completions. That is the definition of a game manager. Also in 16 years in the league he won 10 or more games just 3 times…. In 2017 he had his only 4,000 yard and his only 25 td season ever in KC, but with that same cast the following year Mahomes had 50 TDs and 5,000 yards

Then again Mahomes was 6’2” 225lbs with a cannon. He accounted for “53” tds and 5,000 plus yards.

We are talking about spending an elite piece of capital on a high risk position, where we already have a pro bowler in his prime on a team friendly contract?

Unless somebody wants to announce with conviction that Stroud or Young - and technically both since we won’t have first dibs…. Are either going to be as good as Burrow or Mahomes?

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Obviously, sorry if that wasn’t clear. You don’t just take a QB to take one. I 100% agree. But you don’t pass on one you really like because you have Goff.

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Yes, it does seem unwise. But what are you going to do when Goff is NOT on a team friedly contract? At some time you have to spend the capital. We have two more years of that contract, at most. You have to start preparing for whatever comes next now…not in two years. If Goff blows it out of the water, great. Pay him. But have a back-up plan too .

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We just disagree on the nature of Goff. You trust him for our future far more than I do.

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Pretty sure the very last thing weighing on Holmes mind (at this moment at least) is finding a replacement for a 28 year old QB that has the teams absolute confidence

Some of you guys…you’re consistent I’ll give you that

Enjoy your run boys, if you’re not careful it can be very short lived

Talking to you McVay :laughing:

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Here is the thing. Brad Holmes could have taken fields. He knew what he was planning and that this team w this offensive line and hopefully weapons would pan out….he passed on the kid. Goff is the guy till he is not the guy. Wanna throw the term bridge around? Have at it. Wanna call him a franchise qb…cool beans……wanna believe we need an upgrade in order to win…okay. Brad will make the move if and when it is necessary.

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That’s a good perspective

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