Yes he had a good first half. We didn’t have our deep threat WR and still had a top offense. I believe through the first several weeks we were ranked in the top four scoring. If our defense were statistically average all year we would have finished with 15 wins
Did you watch Allen last week? He threw two picks and fumbled twice. We all think he’s a great QB but it was the Bills defense that won that game. Or they would have been bounced in the first round
Again, you’re using stats. And you are not telling the whole story. And those Ram stats you just showed are extremely good. All but 3 season are top notch. And if you are going to say Goff was the QB for those good seasons, you also have to say he was for those bad seasons.
Let,s not pretend Goff was a very good QB. He wasn’t. Let’s not say he was because he now plays for Detroit. Everyone, and their mother knew Goff wasn’t that good.
You have to throw away 2022. Stafford Kupp, Robinson were out. And that OL was a mess.
Look, don’t turn this into me hating Goff. I do not. I support him, and I want him to be great. As I said before, I’m just being real.
I’ll just leave it at this. I strongly disagree and from my perspective it appears you are cherry picking the stats/data. Particularly with what you choose to credit and discredit. Goff isn’t good yet he’s capable of being part of the 2nd and 3rd best offense? Just doesn’t add up in my opinion.
Hell even Goffs ‘awful’ 2021 season on a rebuilding Lions team stripped of talent behind a makeshift Oline with half a season of a mummy calling plays he finished with a passer rating of 91.5 with 19 touchdowns and 8 interceptions and a 67.2 comp
That’s better than Staffords career passer rating, completion percentage and interception ratio. So how bad was it really?
Stats again. No he was not good the 1st half of the season. You are not being honest. I would say below average to average. You have to also be fair. How many INT’s did he throw? How many INT’s was he on pace for? What were the bad stats? Show all the stats not just the good ones. The offense had a lotto do with the OL, and running game also. Then they fell. They were shut out by the Pats. They went threw a stretch a bad stretch. No, he didn’t have all his weapons. But lets not sit here, and give him zero blame. He deserves blame. And it shows that he doesn’t have the tools. He’s not the guy who can carry a team.
Look at KC. The Lions offense is more talented. But they have Mahomes, so now they’re a threat to win it all. Goff is NOT no where near that elite type of talent.
Goff, and the offense turned it around. Including the defense. Goff was great the last 8 games. And I support him to the fullest. I hope he continues on this path, but as of right now he is he is what he is.
C’mon dude enough about Josh Allen. It’s a team effort. One day he wins it. The next day the defense wins it. Did you not see what he did to us? Let’s not go overboard here. Goff is no where near Josh Allen.
The Bills wil never trade Allen. For anything. You think Goff has that same value.
I will end my argument by saying again I support Goff. But I am real about him. Let him prove me wrong. I would love it.
Stafford won the Superbowl. Goff was throwing it away on 4th down. You’re a stats guy, and you keep using these “good” stats. It is a well known fact even statistically Goff wasn’t just bad. He was horrible.
To make a persuasive argument that holds water stats are important. Otherwise it’s just sharing your perception and not all that strong or interesting
KC has the best Oline in the league. First best grade in pass blocking win rate and 3rd for run blocking. And Kelsie is a Hall of Fame TE in his prime and a Pro Bowl WR in JuJu
Not sure Id make a sweeping assessment that the Lions offense in general is more talented. After Amon Ra, the WRs have been unremarkable or hurt the pass blocking is ranked 18th and run block 9th
My problem with your stats is that you are manipulating things. While stats are important, they do not tell the whole story. You’re right it’s my opinion when it comes to certain things. But you seem to be ignoring, or not getting the points. Goff is no where near Mahomes. Or Allen.
From ESPN:
Ranking NFL’s top 100 most valuable players of 2022 season >
Goff checks in at 15
“… Goff finished the season fifth in QBR and led an offense that ranked third in EPA per dropback, only behind the Chiefs and Bills,” Walder wrote. “And he did it without a lot of help from teammates. His offensive line was average in pass protection, and while Amon-Ra St. Brown was very good, the Lions’ receiving group wasn’t particularly impressive as a whole…”
Im not manipulating anything. I’m just presenting arguments with more objective backing rather than just emotion bias and purely subjective perception.
I’m not totally sold on Allen. I thought Goff outplayed him on Thanksgiving, Allen has a much better team around him and turns the ball over too much. I believe he leads the league in picks and if he didn’t get bailed out by his defense last week his picks would have cost them the game
Mahomes is great. He will probably go down as one of the top two or three QBs to ever play.
If you’re argument is that you are disappointed that Goff, or nobody really, is Mahomes then sure. Great point?
He “finished”. No one is disputing Goff had a great 2nd half. He deserves to have a high ranking like that. I would also disagree with that perspective.
Really though, you reach really hard. You’d make a great Jared Goff attorney in court. But you are not being honest, you are not telling the whole story, there is no context, you are using stats to manipulate truth while ignoring the bad. I wish i was a stats guru like you so I can show you.
I am actually sitting here with you debating Goff, vs Allen, vs Mahomes. That’s all crazy talk.
As far as KC goes. They have a great OL. They have an elite TE. Their running games sucks. Their WRs aren’t anything special. ST is nothing special. Defense isn’t good. It IS Mahomes.
Cue all the Mahomes bad stats, cue JuJu’s good stats.
Easier to “finish” against the 32nd ranked defense than a top five defense. I believe if you look, against the Bills defense Goff has the second best game all year after Tua.
The irony here is I’ve presented performance stats for the entire years in question. This year, last year…You are the one saying, ‘let’s just focus on the first half of the season and even then just the things we can poke at.’ If anyone is not telling the ‘whole story’ it’s you
There’s nothing dishonest about presenting as much evidence as possible. You think way too much of yourself to assume your opinions outside of statistical evidence is interesting or compelling. It’s not
It’s the same weak take you posted under your other handle jgel717
That’s what you get when you sell out your future for ‘The Win NOW’ plan. Sure you win NOW, and they did, but for the next 8 or 10 years (ehh, OK, maybe 4 or 5) you’re trying to play catch-up. Especially when the guy that orchestrated the whole thing over the previous 3 or 4 years by drafting young talent and signing experienced veterans up and leaves. Leaves for another team. One that’s sucked. Sucked for decades. Hopefully his new(est) team learns from his old teams mistakes.
Spot on
Stafford got McVay over the hump. He is a finished product and basically took over the games in the playoffs last year. McVay handed the reigns over in the 4th quarter of the Superbowl.
Now, look at Goff’s development here considering all the faults you just mentioned. By the 2nd half of this season, he had cleaned up a lot and owned the offense. Unlike Stafford, Goff was not a finished product, requiring coaching.
Snead said they needed a QB who was ready to run a pro style offense and that they were in a window where they couldn’t wait for Goff, but that he could develop. Well, develop he has, and the question becomes, why couldn’t the coaching staff there bring this out of him?
I call BS!
Here’s where stats get thrown out the window.
When Maholmes starts getting pressured, he has the ability to feel it and escape before the pressure is on him and make a play.
When a stationary pocket QB gets pressured, he goes down.
Hurts, Maholmes, & Allen as well as a few others all have the ability to help their O-lines with pocket mobility.
My eyes and watching NFL for 50 years tell me the Lions O-Line was one of the best I have seen in my lifetime. Not in stats, but the space and time in the pocket allotted for JG. Sure at times he threw a good ball when pressured, but the majority of his pass plays there was no defender within 3-4 yards from him.
Stats will show when JG released the ball, he HAD little time in the pocket. Again, the stats are BS.
Our offense is predicated on timing. When the receiver makes his break, the ball needs to be there NOW. It’s how Ben, Jared, Dan and the gang built our O.
When you have a stud center and two of the best tackles in the game, any team can get by with average guard play. We had Jonah on the left who far surpasses average and we had a disaster on the right. It’s not difficult to cover for one weak link on the O-line on pass plays. Hurts more in the run game.
Look at the teams that have a highly rated pass protecting line from a stats point, I’m guessing most had a mobile QB. Always room for exceptions, but I would not trade our entire line for any other teams entire line in the league.
Thats true. Goff plays QB.
I’ll assume you mean Josh Allen.
Goff has more yards, half the Int’s, and 3 pt higher rating.
Allen has had a team around him that has been a media favorite to win the Super Bowl the last 3 years, and haven’t made the trip, yet. We’ll see if the can handle Cincy, today.
Media manufactured love. He’s good, but, he’s just good, not the second coming. He’s not Mahomes or Rodgers.
I’m glad you’re not our GM. We’d have a decent QB with no team around him wondering why we’re basement dwellers, and calling Allen a garbage QB.
Yes Sir
And “I ll repeat myself, “at the risk of being crude”
There must be 50 ways to piss on Goff…50 ways to…
Sorry just feeling Merry this morning I guess
It’s taken from an old Paul Simon tune
I recognized it immediately.
Allen is Matthew Stafford with more athleticism.