Safety?

I still don’t understand why this was a safety

  1. why does the ball have to fully go past the goal line. The front tip of the ball crossing the goal line is a TD.

  2. Forward progress should have marked the ball completely past the goal line. Goff never re-established forward progress so why did they move the spot?

In the end the safety didn’t matter and who knows maybe we wanted a safety on 4th down. However this seemed like a very weird special rule the Lions always uncover and no one seems to mention it

1 Like

Its effectively the same rule… if any part of the ball hits the endzone its a td/safety. The spot was moved back as goff pulled the ball back towards his body causing the safety.

1 Like

If you watch by rule he voluntarily brought the ball back…had he reached out and placed jt down he would have been okay.

Personally i am happy it occured. I was losing by 2 in my fantasy…i had the seahags defense. And i txted my boy lemaneting i forgot to switch the seahwawks for the titans defense (i also have gibbs) so they ended up vultering…he goes “bro you won by 8”…and so i did…all bc of the safety lol.

1 Like

The runner isn’t down until his body is down. Goff pulled the ball back before he was effectively down.

2 Likes

Sorry Anger GIF by South Park

Not sure where i disagreed but you said it better

Who cares if he pulled the ball back voluntarily. He had already extended it completely over the goal line while in the grasp but not down. What happened to forward progress?

Have I not seen a runner extend the ball forward at arm’s length to get a 1st down, and then pull it back to his body to protect it as he is tackled, and is still given the forward progress of the ball’s furthest extension?

I could swear I have, many times in fact! Is this rule special to the safety situation? Or just special to the Lions?

3 Likes

Another thought on this.

A tackler in the endzone has a firm grasp on Goff’s ankle and is trying to pull him back. He then loses his balance: the arc of his fall, and the player slightly rolling with his ankle cause the ball to move back towards the goal line.

There is no doubt if he could have pulled his ankle loose, he would have lunged forward a little farther, but was prevented from doing so by the tackler.

So I’m not at all sure they’re right in saying that he “voluntarily” brought the ball back. Why would he “volunteer” to do so? Can the replay officials read minds?

It seems to me that the voluntary aspect is intended to address the situation where a runner has reached a forward point but subsequently retreats from their forward progress in an effort to evade a tackler or find a lane. It’s voluntary at that point because they are choosing that direction of travel and their position is not being affected by the grasp or contact of an opponent. A player who is in the grasp and being tackled isn’t voluntarily retreating from forward progress.

This appears to be the farthest reach with the ball.

Didn’t affect the W/L outcome, and is mostly academic, but it sure seems that the replay officials inserted themselves unnecessarily and in error to me.

It gave the hawks a glimmer of life and more ppl glued to the screen. Perhaps that drove the decision.

3 Likes

I agree I think this was a very weird call and thank god we had a big lead and it didn’t matter.

It was the right call. That said, I remember Drew Brees used to do this thing on 3rd or 4th and shorts all the time where he would jump up and stick the ball over the line to gain and then yank it back before he got tackled. And the refs always gave him forward progress. That always baffled me. I mean, it’s fine when you are trying to get a touchdown- if it crosses the goal line, you’re good. But he’d be doing it at like the 30…

3 Likes

If he was down, he wouldn’t be able to extend it.
If he extends it he has to simultaneously be down?

I thought he cleared the endzone with forward progress.

1 Like

Forward progress is from the LOS forward. There was no forward progress on this play.

There’s only two ways to be down on this.

  1. Refs rule he’s in the grasp. Which if that happened in the endzone, it would be a safety.
  2. Once his body is ruled down… and the ball was in the redzone when he was ruled down.

It’s really not.

The field of play is from goal line to goal line.

When the ball is traveling towards your opponents endzone it must leave the field of play to be a TD. So just the tip of the ball crossing your opponents goal line and it is a TD.

When the ball is traveling away from your own endzone it must be completely in the field of play and the runner down for it to NOT be a safety.

The difference is the direction the ball is traveling and whether or not it’s in the field of play when the runner is down.

1 Like

That’s the only explanation that I’ve seen that makes sense. Essentially the endzone takes preference over the field of play, and it doesn’t matter whether its the front of the ball or the back of the ball.

@Air2theThrown is exactly right. This was the right call. This is a great explanation.

I think people are forgetting the concept of the goal line. When you are going for a touchdown, any part of the ball that breaks the front edge of the goal line, it’s a touchdown. So you can swipe the ball across the front, break the plane and pull it back and it’s still good. However for your own goal line, its an equal but opposite rule. If the ball is touching any part of the goal line once the player is down, its a safety.

Think about it this way. If a player is running towards the boundary, and he extends the ball past the first down line. However, as he is running out of bounds and another player is approaching, he pulls the ball back in before his foot goes out of bounds, short of the line to gain. At that point, it’s short. Even if at one time the ball was past the line, he pulled it back. It’s no different than a runner who runs forward 6 yards, spins away from a tackle and in the process of doing so goes 3 yards backwards and gets tackled. It’s a gain of 3 at that point, not 6.

Think about the play against the Cardinals with Dmont, where they picked him up off the ground and began carrying him backwards. That is an example where forward progress is given and the ball is marked at the spot where Dmont stopped moving forward. Had the Seahawks hit Goff from the front and drove him backwards into the end zone when the screen shot was taken, it would be ball on the 1. However, since Goff was getting grabbed from behind, he was moving forward. Play is alive. He then tucked the ball back in to prevent it from getting punched loose (smart play) and as he fell, the ball landed on the goal line. Safety.

If you want to be mad, be mad at Ben Johnson for calling a pass play when we are standing in our own end zone, and we employ a literal battering ram named Montgormery who would’ve at least got us to the 2 or 3 yard line if we run a dive. To be fair, if you caught Goff’s comments in the post game, he said they did have a wide open receiver who would’ve gone for a touchdown if he had gotten the ball out, but the play broke down too fast. In my opinion, that was too much risk/reward for my liking. I know what they were trying to do. 2 minute warning was coming, so there is no risk of stopping the clock for an incompletion and saving the Seahawks a timeout. In a game where you are up 42-27 with 2 mins left though, the last thing you want to risk near your own end zone is giving the other team a potential fumble/pick and having it go for 6 against you.

If you really want to get lost in the Matrix, what if I told you, the call for a safety actually HELPED the Lions… Hear me out. It was 2nd and 10 right at 2:01. Lets say Goff gets the ball out of the end zone. Now it’s 3rd down and 12 and we are pinned on the 1. Seattle just got the 2 minute warning to rest a bit, and they know run is coming. Lions run Dmont and he gets back to the original line of scrimmage, so now Fox is kicking out of his own end zone. Even on a boomer, Seahawks are getting the ball back on their 45ish. Good field position against a gassed defense.

Instead, the safety is called, and the Lions get a bit more of a break, and with the free kick they are able to pin Seattle all the way back to their own 20 with 1 timeout. Even then, Seattle marches down the field to our 20 yard line with 1:06 to go. That’s when Geno throws the pick to Kirby in the end zone.

Seeing how quickly the Seahawks got the ball down the field, it’s possible if they started from their own 45, they march down the field and score to make it 42-34 with about a minute left. They could then kick onside, and actually have a chance to tie the game on a TD+2. Basically, we gave them 2 points in exchange for better field position, which made Seattle run their own clock against them and forced them into a desperate heave that Kirby stole. Ballgame.

2 Likes
ARTICLE 1. FORWARD PROGRESS

The forward progress of a runner or airborne receiver is the point at which his advance toward his opponent’s goal ends and is the spot at which the ball is declared dead by rule, irrespective of the runner or receiver being pushed or carried backward by an opponent.

I believe the issue is relative to the boundary, as StormGuy mentions.

When you’re established in the field of play and extend the ball over a goal line, it’s over. TD.
When you’re in the field of play and extend the ball over any other boundary, the play is still active. You’re not made out of bounds until a body part touches a boundary line or you’re ruled down by contact.

Extending from the goal outward does not end the play.

There still is a matter of where the ball should be spotted on a similar play. Let’s take the endzone or any other boundary out of it and imagine you’re simply reaching for the 1st down marker while being tackled. You’re usually seeing the ball spotted where the runner extends to. This is what you expected to see here.

Because at the opponent’s end zone, the play is over once the ball crosses the line. The second Brees stuck the ball past it, play over, TD.

But the ball is live when it’s in your own end zone, which is obvious (we see plenty of plays where the QB drops back into his own end zone to throw a pass). The play is not automatically over once the ball crosses the line into the field of play. It is over when the player is ruled down, whether by forward progress or a body part down or what have you.

Do QBs get forward progress when they get sacked behind the LOS? No, the ball is placed where they’re tackled. Period.

That’s not correct.

The field of play takes precedence period. It’s only 100 yards long.

When traveling towards your opponents end zone once the ball touches the endzone it’s a TD. You drove the ball into your opponent’s endzone. That’s the rule to score.

When defending the ball has to be completely out of your own endzone and be ruled down.

Forward progress only takes place past the LOS not from behind it. And it must be ruled down or the play ruled as dead.

There was no forward progress because the Lions were behind their own LOS and the ball was out of the field of play when Goff was ruled down. Thats a safety.

The call is 100% the correct call.

2 Likes

Exactly. Its just a different way to say it. Any part of the ball touching the endzone takes precedence. To me, that’s an easier way to think about it. Potatoes vs. Potahtos.

1 Like

4 Likes