Many Shubs and Zulls knew what it was to be roasted in the depths of a Sloar that day, I can tell you!
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I absolutely love this post and the thought you put into it. So you’re telling me I don’t have to choose between best of all time and complete bust? Craziness I tell you! I agree completely with your assessment.
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Absolutely not elite. That’s reserved for Manning, Brady, Brees, Rodgers, Roethlisberger in his era. You could probably add Wilson and maybe Luck in that group although Luck is hard to evaluate because of relatively small sample size. I’m excluding the new guys since we’re talking about the totality of his career.
Stafford was consistently considered in the bottom tier of the top 10 group or just outside the top 10 and I think you need at least several (3-5) years of top 5 QB level at to be considered elite. I do think he’s a better QB than overrated Eli Manning who will likely be in the Hall of Fame based almost solely on 2 playoff runs surrounded by a career that was very pedestrian for a guy who is held at such high esteem.
There’s no doubt in my mind that Stafford would be an elite QB on just about any other team. The organization failed him, flat out.
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If there was an all time Madden ranking I would give him an 84. Not Elite…but above average.
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I’m only gonna post bc @Air2theThrown took the time to create a sincere post, this topic is flammable.
He is elite. 100% believe he is elite. That’s is my own personal take. I don’t care when people argue he is number 15 or something…to me he is top 5. But That’s just a number…his production says he is elite.
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Especially considering the QBs we’ve been subjected to for quite awhile.
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Who’s he behind in TDs and yards drew breeze?
Also he definitely is elite I’d say he is in the top 5
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He’s had short stretches of elite play here and there, but not for any entire season.
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I honestly look at HOF candidates in the same lens as All Pro selections: this is fan love as its best.
All QBs in the HOF are there as they were in winning teams more so than they made that team a winner on a year in and out basis.
Matt is a top ten QB.
Win loss wise he sucks
I honestly see him as a baller who gets more out of his effort than 96% of the other active QBs
There is only a short short list of this better than him when you “try” to separate his play from the overall teams. Which is never a perfect event; ever.
I really hope he wins the big one as he deserves HOF me too for his internal drive alone…
Best player we have ever had imho - overall better than Barry and Calvin
Welcome Shack!!
Of course he’s elite. He was rated #6 in the fucking league last year for Christ’s sake.
Zero run game his entire career, lousy O-line most years, top 3 most sacked QB the last 11 years, lousy coaches a dumb-ass owner, lousy defenses for all but one season, and the list goes on. He’d have 3-4 Super Bowls by now if NE drafted him.
Lions fans are some of the dumbest…
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In a nutshell …A clothes makes the man belief …shared by the proverbial herd.
A beautiful woman made more beautiful with lipstick and rouge is in fact less beautiful without the lipstick and rouge …not having the lipstick and rouge (to no fault of her own) at her disposal… is not a reflection of her beauty …it’s a shit out of luck scenario.
You are either elite or you are not …Matthew Stafford is 100% Elite
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Here’s the thing, elite is a very subjective term of which the criteria varies from person to person.
Personally, I’m strict when it comes to handing out elite grades. Elite to me is an A level QB, a QB who was consistently among the very best (elite) in the league consistently throughout his career. Outside of 2011 and perhaps this past season (7 games) although I’d argue against because he failed a lot down the stretch, was there any point in Stafford’s career where he was considered elite, among the top 5 at his position? My answer to that is a hard no. Maybe 2015 could be arguable, not coincidentally when the Lions had arguably their most talented team of the last 30 years.
He’s in the class of above average to very good with guys like Ryan, Newton, Eli Manning, Romo, Dalton. Guys like that. I wouldn’t consider any of those guys elite. Elite is reserved for the very best IMO. Brady, P. Manning, Brees, Rodgers, Roethlisberger. All the others are a big step down. Wilson is a guy who I’d place in between the two groups, Rivers too.
Maybe it’s not fair because of the team he played for but that’s all we have to go off of in a realistic world. In a hypothetical world, he could have been elite if he had a better supporting cast like some of the others on my “elite” list but that’s not the case.
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I am definitely not someone who needs to be convinced to not use the “E” word and “Matthew Stafford” in the same sentence.
But, in the end it’s all subjective and relative to each fan. If people want to call a guy with 0 division titles, 0 playoff wins, and a completely garbage record against teams with a winning record “elite” - I’m fine with that. The people who passionately defend Stafford on this board often find logical reasons to do so and point out plenty of stats that indicate he’s a fine QB. I’m hardly about to call anyone on this board an idiot for sharing their opinion on the matter but yeah, I’m not calling Stafford “elite” myself. Not until he beats elite QB’s with equally “shitty” teams who tend to find ways to win their games regardless of the talent around them in games that matter.
PS: Before I get pummeled for doing anything less than blowing Stafford I’d like to point out he’s done some great things for the Lions. The Lions have won a lot of games they wouldn’t have with other QB’s. I can think of more QB’s in the NFL I’d rather not have than have over Stafford. I just don’t think he’s “elite”
It makes no difference how you come to the conclusion you do on what Elite is . Whatever formula you apply , simple or complicated does not change or make what I said invalid , it actually affirms it .
The formula you admit to using and many use on deeming Stafford not elite is influenced by outside variables that have no bearing on Matthew Stafford’s talent level or ability . This in my opinion is 100% wrong .
Making a list as you did and naming Jimmy Page, Eric Clapton, Keith Richards & B.B King …as Elite, while leaving Jimi Hendrix off the list because he had a dollar store plastic banjo at his disposal (Do to no fault of his own) is something I can never support or be on board with as a remotely rational way of evaluating .
If as you claimed above on Stafford…
“There’s no doubt in my mind that Stafford would be an elite QB on just about any other team”…
You believe giving Hendrix a Fender Stratocaster somehow changes and makes Hendrix Elite …Is absurd
It’s fine if you disagree but you can’t just disregard my opinion by saying it makes no difference how I came to that conclustion or say it’s wrong because it’s my opinion and as I said before, classifying players into categories that can be brushed with a broad stroke is subjective. No right or wrong answer.
So I’ll ask you this question, in the 2010s (disregarding the new crop of guys), who do you consider to be the elite QBs of that decade? To me, “elite” should be reserved for a select (small) group of players but perhaps your list of elite is way bigger, more lenient?
On another note, I completely disagree that Stafford is the Jimi Hendrix of QBs if that’s the conclusion you were drawing from that analogy.
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Ugh…
I really hate the defense that Stafford has “never had talent around him”. (The Hendrix using a dollar store plastic banjo analogy is great though). 
Every NFL team is full of quality talent. Stafford has had great defenses, elite WR’s, good offensive linemen, and yes, even good running backs. Perhaps not as good as other QB’s have enjoyed at times but Russ Wilson has never had an O-Line, Aaron Rodgers has won his division several times with no defense, and on and on.
Having said that, just to enjoy the analogy you made a bit more - I genuinely believe Jimmy Hendrix would play the shit out of a cheap dollar store banjo. I’ve played guitar for over 30 years now and have definitely noticed that the the best, most talented players often have the cheapest, most beat up gear.
It’s not apples to apples, but I think being a QB in the NFL works the same way to a significant extent.
Ok, for real - I’m out of this thread now, I promise. Good luck to all of the outstanding Den members here who wish to continue the Stafford debate saga.
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You focusing on Jimmy Hendrix and not the analogy itself …speaks volumes .
So you decided to ignore the rest of my post… speaks volumes.
I guess I’ll ask you the question again and hope that you answer in a reasonable manner.
Who do you consider to be the elite QBs of the 2010s?