I don’t want to get into this Hendrix debate but for the record (if I remember correctly) his first instrument was a 1-string Ukelele that he found in the trash, his first real guitar was an acoustic guitar, and his 3rd guitar was a Supro Ozark that his dad bought for him for $89 in 1959. $89 in 1959 is the equivalent to spending almost $900 on a guitar today.
I don’t know what a strat cost back in 1959 but probably not a whole lot more.
Good breakdown and I agree with a lot of your assessments even if we disagree on the definition of elite.
One thing I would add is I think Rodgers has to be near the top of a pure talent all time list, weighing physical traits and arm talent. Talk about a guy who can make every single throw from any angle and blends that with amazing pocket presence and mobility. He’s pretty much the perfect QB specimen who should have won a lot more with proper team management. Mahomes is the new Rodgers, very similar traits.
| Quarterback | Wins | Losses |
|---|---|---|
| Matthew Stafford | 5 | 46 |
| Aaron Rodgers | 21 | 29 |
| Tom Brady | 50 | 33 |
| Matt Ryan | 17 | 22 |
| Drew Brees | 20 | 48 |
| Russell Wilson | 19 | 12 |
We see a lot of the same …Aaron has great skills no doubt …his Achilles heel is his lack of accountability, ego and personality on the field …God awful horrible traits that have held his teams back .
Mahomes to me is damn near perfect …he is Favre , Rodgers and Stafford rolled into one . His play in the Superbowl told me he was not ready though
He did not earn the ring or play well in the Superbowl. He won only because Jimmy G failed . Normally I would say the experience of winning the Superbowl in that fashion could hurt most young QB’s development , but if he is who I think he is, he knows he did not truly win it and he wants to remove any luck scenario and destroy a team to victory .
Welcome to the den post more often.
To answer your question - It has to be Brees.
In my second post where he was 3rd. I did a little research and it appears he was behind only Brady and Rogers.
Both stats are rather impressive.
I’ve always said - give the guy a run game and then let’s talk. This is why I feel RB is a far greater need than some think. I hope we go RB round two.
I agree with this and it’s obviously a real reason for concern.
However … I believe that it is hard to consistently win without a decent run game.
I’d rather have the last ranked defense than the last ranked run game. I think that if you can provide a consistent above average run game that you will win more than you lose.
Thanks Radio. I know you have some heavy feelings on this. I appreciate you helping to keep it civil and I also respect your views on the subject.
I know this thread has the ability to get out of hand but I thought it was a cool stat that any Lions fan can appreciate.
I hope others take your lead and help keep things respectful.
Thank you
Marino is better than Elway.
I think I have a better example than the Hendrix example
Think Basketball or Hockey.
When you have Yzerman on a crappy team. People recognized he was a great player because of his scoring. Yzerman played his best on a crappy Redwings team and finally won a cup when he was a shadow of his younger self. Without the cup people would still recognize him as a great player.
Let me give you a better example. If I asked you if Charles Barkley was an elite player what would you say? How about Carl Malone?
Malone was a two time league MVP and will likely get into the hall of fame. He never won a championship. If you look him up on Wiki you won’t see his win-loss record. You won’t see how many wins he had against winning teams or what his post season record was. That’s because Basketball is viewed as a team sport.
Barkley is an 11 time all pro, a league MVP but he never won a championship. He is widely considered one of the best power forwards to ever play the game. No one questions his win loss record.
My point is why is it that football is the only team sport to do this and they only do it for the QB. No other player. When we talk about Barry being Elite do we question his win loss record? Why should we do that for Matt Stafford then? … see my point?
Matt has dominated the stats since he entered the league. Much like Barkley, Yzerman, Barry and Malone did.
Why is the standard different for an NFL QB? Why is it that fans and media want to contribute team wins to the QB in a team sport? But not do it for any other position or in any other sport?
If Matt Stafford played any other position or any other sport than everyone would call him elite.
damn, dude - niiiiice find
Tony Romo
100% agree, and have been preaching it for years.
I get that QB’s contribute “more” to a teams wins than any other position in the NFL, but Matt even owns records most associated with that, and on statistically poor teams. His teams have had poor defense, poor Oline protection, and poor running games almost to a rule, and yet there he is with the record for the most 4th quarter comeback victories in a single NFL season (with 8), IN THE HISTORY OF THE GAME.
Also, this always pushes some over the edge but, GASP, I am not buying the narrative that TEAM stats, no matter how many, make someone the GOAT. A gentleman with the initials TB is good, but not the greatest ever, and played on consistently good teams. Look up the running game and defensive rankings. I don’t think he would have made it through the punishment that Stafford has endured in Detroit as long as Matt has already - I honestly think he would have had a career ending injury (he was never the most mobile nor athletic).
What’s the point? More TEAM stats.
Rank the supporting cast by objective statistics (running game, Oline protection, and defensive statistics) and see which team is on the bottom. We know which teams and it isn’t close - the Lions.
I’ll give that Stafford is an elite talent and the best QB the Lions have ever had by far. He’s not an elite QB because he hasn’t won a single NFL playoff game in his life. So he can’t join the club of those who do. For the record, I also think Morino is one of the greatest QBs of all-time but HE can’t join the club of SB Champions because he’s never won one either. To me that’s a fair read.
I am with you folks, “Elite” is a talent level evaluation and has nothing to do with a team’s record. If a player is Elite then the player is elite no matter what the team record says. Air you showed some great examples and I know that their are others. There is no direct correlation between a player who is Elite and their team’s records no matter how many times that people want to throw it out there.
On to the subject I do not consider Stafford Elite, but that is based on a lack of consistency. He can and has went for stretches playing at an Elite level, where as he has also went for stretches playing at an average level. IMO Elite players are consistent over long periods of time (years) not weeks. That is also why I would not group any player on their first contract as Elite, I need to see them play at that level beyond a few years.
Um. 2017 he played pretty well. Not great. Not bad.
2018 he was dog crap
2019 he played a half season and did well against some terrible defenses missing their secondaries. I’ll give him credit. He was playing well, and took advantage of other team’s issues, but playing great for 2 months over the past 2 years doesn’t equate to top 5. Not even close.
Great analogy, Air.
This is more of an apples to oranges comparison but at least it’s somewhat the same, not an apple to broccoli comparison.
It’s almost impossible to compare sports to a topic that’s even more subjective like music.
At least with Stafford, you can throw down some stats…but what stats can you throw down for your favorite musician to prove he’s better than some other musician!!!
How many Rock-n-roll hall of fame votes they get? How many #1 songs? How many albums they sell? How fast they can play? Who can come-up with the most memorable riffs?
The Beatles have sold more albums than any other group, where is John Lennon on the list of greatest guitarists? Where is Eddie Van Halen on that list? And I could name a guitar player who 98% of this board probably haven’t even heard of who was one of Slash’s main inspirations when learning to play.
And when Jimi was asked, “what’s it like to be the best rock guitarist in the world?” Jimi said, “I don’t know, you’ll have to go ask Rory Gallagher!”
And if you want to talk about instruments, Rory’s strat was stolen, thrown into a ditch full of water, and found a couple days later and it was still his main guitar.
Now, the Malone and Barkley comparison’s, they work…at least to a certain extent. Basketball players play both offense and defense and there’s only 5 on the court at one time. Football has 11 on offense, 11 on defense, and another 11 on special teams (some of which might be the same players on offense or defense). So, you’re trying to compare a sport that plays 8-9 guys on any given night to a sport that can put 33+ players on a field on any given Sunday…but a QB can carry more weight on the teams success.
I guess it’s just very hard to compare a football QB to any other sport or subject…but the basketball ones were about as close as you’re going to get.
If i see this stat one more time…it’s totally irrelevant.
Wins , playoff wins, are TEAM stats.
There is no QB in the history of the NFL who would have won a playoff game the last 11 years with this organization. In fact most QB’s would not have lasted 11 years playing behind Detroit’s shitty O-lines… Stafford has been the most sacked QB the last 11 years and he is a tough dude.
No run game EVER. It boggles my mind that the haters totally ignore this startling FACT, or they are just too stupid to realize the ramifications of playing in a one dimensional offense.
