Starting Team - by position - better or not?

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Alright, I’ve been out of it the last 5-6 months. Moved across the country, attended to a bunch of family stuff…it’s all kept me away from The Den and our Lions for too long.

So I kindly ask for a position update comparing last year’s position to the likely player for the upcoming season - and then a rating!

23/24
QB - Goff/Goff - same? I say a touch better.
RB1 - D Mont - not better, but still very good.
RB2 - Gibbs - significantly better

And so on. Yes, I’m asking for a lot, but come on! Let’s see it.

Thank you.

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WR, Jamo ascending
WR, St Brown same
WR, Reynolds replaced by DPJ, not good.
TE, some players return, take another step
OL, shuffled players, but Zeitler is a net improvement.

So, on offense, the net effect is quite possibly more of last year’s success + a little more consistency and a few more big plays.

Defense, on the other hand, is more than I want to write from an iPhone mini.

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Why not good? I sort of think of the reporting as leaningTBD.

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Yeah, I’d say that one is very much still up in the air. We don’t even really know that DPJ will win the spot. One of the camp upstarts might very well supplant him.

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I expect that the rapport between Goff and Reynolds will be missed. Key conversions might be more likely to become key turnovers.

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Ah, ok. I misunderstood that as your sense of what has been reported.

I’d agree that the production of Reynolds’ spot is likely to pull back to some extent. Though I do think DPJ’s talent level is being discounted here bc of the inherent challenges of a mid season addition and how his build up speed looks. Especially when he’s returning a few punts in the playoffs and our eyes are having to adjust compared to Raymond and his unreal quicks.

IMO DPJ is at least as naturally talented as Josh. DPJ’s age 23 season is significantly more impressive than it’s given credit for:

  • 97.5 QB rating when thrown to by middling QBs with a combined 84.9 QB rating
  • Respectable ADOT of 11.7 so they weren’t gimmicky
  • produced at a 1,000 yard clip when “featured” (4 targets or more)

There was a reason that quite a few people were projecting a further leap out of him last year. It was a lost year but that happens in the NFL. There are certainly scenarios in which he is a pleasant surprise.

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Biggest improvement gotta be the cornerback room.

Biggest concern probably safety depth or offensive tackle depth.

The wildcards to me are Jamo, Jack Campbell and James Houston. All 3 could potentially have huge years. But all 3 still need to prove it.

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I would say that if you wanted to kind of look at it in groups:

Offense
QB Room same but if Goff is hurt team is in trouble, last year Lions had a real backup
RB room I think better, more competition and Gibbs should be more dynamic
WR Room same but has potential to be better
TE room same
Oline avoid injuries and they will be best in league but the depth is in question

Defense
DE - better, too many additions and competition not to be better
DT/NT - better for sure, more depth
LB same or maybe better, development needs to keep happening
CB room - lots of competition and tends to be much better
Safety room - I think it trends better, I am not overly worried about depth

Last season the injury bog hurt the secondary a ton. Lets hope we are not talking about injuries next season.

In summary. The offense should be same with maybe more explosive plays as someone posted above. The defense looks to take a rather large step forward IMO. I think they could be talked about as a top 10 unit if things come together and the “potential” greatness of the new comers happens.

I just see this team as one that is going to be even more hungry than last season. The make up of the key players will drive this team.

My main concerns:

  • The Oline depth particularly at Center. When Rags was out I felt like the offense was off a ton.

  • Seeing how this almost all new defensive backfield performs. This is the one area on a team that relies on communication and people being where they need to be when they need to be there is most crucial. Mistakes back here result in TDs. So all the new faces could be a problem early in the season.

  • Kicker especially long FGs. Until this is no longer a problem it is a problem. I will say this is fixed when I see it.

  • How well does MCDC get recharged and lead the squad. Much easier to stay focused and hungry when you have been eating dirt. How does the team and staff handle being the hunted? The words sound great but we will see how they handle the adversity of being expected to win.

I expect that this team should be the first in Lions history to win double digit games in back to back seasons. That is insane and epic all at once. Tom Brady led NE to double digit wins 18 of the 19 seasons he started there…LOL. Rattling off maybe 17 in a row at NE and then 2 more at Tampa. That dude played on teams for 19 years straight that had double digit wins and the Lions have never even had 2 in a row.

So I just think that the Lions will still have some mental toughness to work out this season. I think they have the make up of team that could put 10 double digit win season in a row easy but they need to do it 2 in a row first.

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Once Reynolds has 2 catches for 17 yards by week 9, he will be put on waivers and back to Detroit he will come :wink:

That’s what happened last time he tried playing without Goff. Reynolds will be calling @TNutZz 1 900 number regularly by mid season.

1 900 FOR GOFF

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QB - same. Hooker is a downgrade on Teddy at this point, but since our coaching staff is smart they will presumably install some packages that play to Hooker’s strengths, and, of course, he would be playing behind a very good line and have lots of weapons, so I think he could do well in a 2-3 game stretch, but if Goff goes down for most of the season it’s all aboard the 2025 train.

RB - better. Year 2 Gibbs will be more heavily involved from the beginning, and he’ll have a more diverse route tree. If he’s healthy, he’s a legit OPOY candidate. I also really like what I’m reading about Vaki as a potentially high quality no 3.

WR - same. I’m high on DPJ, and Jamo should finally make a significant season long contribution. Reynolds and his chemistry with Goff is a loss and there isn’t much depth but with DPJ and Jamo only need 300 or so more yards each to replace what Reynolds did.

TE - same. It’s the same group of players, and I don’t think it’s reasonable to expect much more out of LaPorta.

OL - same. Zeitler is maybe a small upgrade on Jackson, but overall you can’t get much better than one of the top 2 or 3 lines in the league.

DL - better. Reader and Davenport are both upgrades, when healthy. I doubt we’ll have available for the full season, but even if they both only play 8-10 games that’s still an upgrade on last year’s group.

LB - better. It sounds like Campbell will take a step forward, which should raise the overall level of play.

DB - same. I’m not convinced that Iffy’s breakout is permanent, and I don’t have high expectations for the rookies either, simply because CB is such a tough position to hit the ground running. Davis should be an upgrade, but we all thought CJGJ, Moseley and Sutton would solve all our problems last year and they didn’t. It’s probably a case of once bitten twice as shy but I want to see it on the field before I believe it.

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I kinda think we could kick the tires on a vet over the summer. Not sure who is out there, but it wouldn’t shock me.
I should add:
Qb- better by experience, worse backups
RB - better
Wr- worse at 3 but jamo cancels that out
Te- better based on experience, if laporta gets hurt so do we
Ol- same
Dt-much improved
De- better by experience and additions
Lb- better, Campbell will break out
Dv- cut (typo turned joke)
Dv- better by depth, additions, experience
S- better by experience
St- kicker scares me always. Punter is all world. Return game is a huge question mark for all teams

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I’ll do it by position group.

QB = Same
RB < Improving
WR > Declining
TE = Same
OL = / Maybe slightly improved.

DL <
LB <
CB <
S >

ST = /

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I’m kind of excited to see Reader and McNeil on the field together and see how that effects the linebackers and edge rushers.

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Biggest goal of the pre-season games is getting hooker live reps with the 1st team. We’ll do that, he’ll be fine.

Secondary - with Cam Sutton gone - big improvement.

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I just read an article that says we downgraded at QB. It is a fact that Goff is always a downgrade at the position, even when the previous QB was…Goff. He is that bad.:rofl:

(sarcasm detected)

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Well, he is older than he’s ever been…

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You could be looking at this wrong.

WR1 = St Brown - same
WR2 = Reynolds > Jamo. - Jamo needs to produced 40 rec/608 yards and 5 TD

I would actually be disappointed if that is all Jamo produced this year.

WR3 = Kalif Raymond - same
WR4 = Jamo > ? . 24 catches for 354 yards and 2 TD’s. Whether DPJ or whoever, that is should be able to produce 1.5 catches per game.

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Starters AND Depth.
2023 vs 2024

QB - Same / Better
RB - Same / Better
WR - Hot take here but i feel confident in our WRs to do better than the group last year, Better / better.
TE - Same / Same
OL - Better / Same
DL - BETTER / BETTER
LB - Same / Same
DB - Better / Better
ST - Same OR better

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QB: Consistent
RB: Improved by Gibbs growth. RB3 will likely be limited in opportunity.
WR: Unknown. Jamo the big question. I believe he becomes a force this year and we end up quite improved. But if not, I expect the unit to decline.
TE: Improved by another year of experience by LaPorta. Depth will be fine.
OL: Slight improvement. Zeitler (if healthy) is an improvement. Depth will be slightly better as well I think.
DL: Solidly improved. DJ and Davenport are major pluses if they can stay healthy. The Commish should bounce back as well. Health is a big question for many, but there are many that will improve the situation if they are healthy.
LB: Campbell improves as a 2nd year player. Rest = consistent.
DB: Solidly Improved. Rookies do not need to be rushed. New FAs can allow for a methodical development of rooks. Branch will improve a little only because he has already set the bar very high.
Special Teams: I believe it remains a strength of the team.

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(0) = consistent/same
(-) = downgrade
(+) = upgrade

QB: Goff (0)
RB1: Monty (0)
RB2: Gibbs (?+) rookie expected to improve
TE1: LaPorta (?+) rookie expected to improve
TE2: Wright (0)
WR1: St Brown (0)
WR2: Jamo (?+) replaces Josh Reynolds
WR3: Raymond (?-) replaces Jamo
LT: Decker (0)
LG: Glasgow (0)
C: Ragnow (0)
RG: Zeitler (+) replaces J. Jackson

On offense, that’s one bona-fide upgrade, some great opportunities for productive rookies to improve, and some interesting question marks albeit with reasonable expectations for improvement at WR. This earns a B+ for keeping a core strength intact, plugging that hole on the OL, and having many cards to play for continued development of their skill players.

DT: Alim (0)
DT: Reader (++) replaces Benito Jones
DE: Hutch (?+) expected to still improve?
DE: Davenport (??) replaces Cominsky
LLB: Barnes (0)
MLB: Campbell (?+) rookie expected to improve
RLB: Anzalone (0)
CB1: Davis (+) replaces Sutton
CB2: Arnold (+) rookie replaces Jerry Jacobs
NB: Robertson (?) replaces Brian Branch
SS: Branch (++) replaces Tracy Walker
FS: Kerby (0)

On defense, there’s one significant upgrade on the line, and several in the secondary. The linebacker corp is the same, with one rookie expected to improve. The big question is DE, from whether Hutch can take it up another notch to who will actually take the other end position. These moves earn an A- for all the tremendous improvements, albeit with a major question mark still remaining (if Davenport produces, it’s suddenly an A+ offseason for this side of the ball).

K: Jake Bates (+?)
Weapon: Sione Vaki (++)

On special teams, there’s legit competition for kicker with Jake Bates just being signed from the UFL. He may have more leg than Badger, and more experience with the new kickoff rules – but does he have consistent accuracy? And then there’s the new weapon, Vaki, who will return kicks and tackle returners. These moves are worth a straight A.

Overall grade is an A-… for now!

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