To all the "Fire X guy" people

The Den
1

What exactly would you do with no secondary? I know it must be the coaches fault if a team loses but if they have no personnel then what are they supposed to do?

We lost our entire starting secondary in one offseason and the lone starter that was still here and healthy decided to be a wannabe thug.

They are doing the only thing you can in this situation and blitzing to try to help the secondary. We have signed/drafted at least 10 secondary players the last 3 seasons also. Did you think our secondary was fine going into the season? Did you think our oline was fine going into last season? Anyone paying attention knew our secondary was going to struggle hard until we get some people healthy or replaced and everyone acts baffled when they play like the 3rd stringers that they are.

It’s hard for me to blame Dan or Shep when they don’t have any talent to work with. If Branch was healthy and we had anything resembling a #1 CB then I think out defense would look much different.

8 Likes
2

Dan works closely with his right-hand man Brad Holmes to make sure there is enough talent on the field at all times and should be constantly developing that pipeline. Therefore they are responsible for the talent they put on the field every week. They don’t live in a vacuum and are absolved of any responsibility.

As far as injuries, AG had a shit ton more then at any time since he left and did more with the lesser talent he had.

The D has been a concern for many years now. They’ve had plenty of time to address it. People make way too many excuses for them and have been for way too long. Excuses are not a pathway to success in any endeavor.

2 Likes
3

If the cornerback room has a true CB1…that CB group is above average…

If BB is healthy and his normal self…that S group is at least average.

This talk of it being an epically bad personnel group is greatly exaggerated. Everyone in the secondary are legit NFL contributing type players. As far as blitzing like crazy…fine. But you can’t blitz but also play 10 yards off a WR on 3rd and 7. You can’t blitz 6 and play an effective zone with no coverage LBer. The scheme is so bad and the blame for that falls on Shep. He didn’t even shoulder any of the blame in that presser. He put it on all everyone else which is the opposite of what a good coach would do. He’s a joke point blank period. Completely in over his head.

Dan shoulders a good amount of blame here as well. Brad has some too. A competent or good DC and this is a contender. But BH also shouldve brought in a Lattimore type to make sure we have some depth on the outside. Right now, our roster is loaded with NBs. DJ, Rock, Rake are the only real outside guys (even Rake is more suited for nickle). One is going to be added i believe…but it probably shouldve been added before the season.

I would give 50% to Dan, 25% to Shep, 25% to Brad. The Personnel doesn’t matter if Shep is the DC. That decision was largely Dan’s. But even if Dennis Allen was a DC. At minimum another proven outside corner should’ve been added and thats on Brad. Relying on Rake at all with his history was a mistake. Even if he eventually pans out…it was a bad gamble that just happen to work.

7 Likes
4

There are two sides to this.

The talent level in the secondary is thin. This is true. Some of this could’ve been avoided, some of it just how it goes in the NFL sometimes. There are a lot of circumstances that led to this. Place blame however you want.

The second part is that the defensive players are either not being put in a position to succeed (they clearly can’t run zone) or they are being asked to do more than they are capable of. This is a coaching issue for the most part, though some players may just be playing outside of their responsibilities as well.

That said, firing Shep tomorrow or after this week isn’t going to change much. They’re not going to uninstall and reinstall a completely new scheme in the middle of the season. They can make some things simpler or change/tweak some small things, but there’s not going to be this huge shift in scheme the second Shep is no longer the guy in the middle of a season. I understand wanting blood and seeing Shep get canned will make people feel better, but it’s just not going to fix everything or be this drastic change overnight like I think some people think it will be.

8 Likes
5

Someone else calling the defense might, and likely will, make a difference. But you are right, completely changing course at this point probably isn’t an option.

5 Likes
6

Idk, but all’s I also know is do whatever it takes to get Jack Campbell to stop literally crying in frustration in the locker room after games.

1 Like
7

He and Larkin are probably fun to hang out with at bars after a game.

3 Likes
8

Post Lions and Wings games tears and beers.. glad I’m over that part of my emotional sports fan disorder, I’ve now graduated to excessive ridicule and many lulz whilst bathing in a pool of schadenfruede.

2 Likes
9

Always great insight Davicus and great to have you back, but outside of scheme, don’t you think it could just be that Shep doesn’t know when to call the appropriate coverages (i.e., play calling). We have several different coverages we can run, but maybe it’s just when he calls certain plays that is the problem. I think that’s why most of us are calling for him to be relieved of play calling duties, understanding that it’s not going to be a massive philosophy change, but maybe calling more plays suitable to what talent we do have available.

2 Likes
10

Yeah, I mean, it’s totally possible he’s just a shit play caller. I’m not going to pretend that I know on each play whether or not a play was executed correctly or not and the players were where they were supposed to be and following their responsibilities/assignments, which is a whole layer of information we’re missing out on. The results speak for themselves, though.

Whatever the case, Shep leading the defense has not resulted in good things happening. If the defense comes out and does what it’s done the last 4 weeks again this weekend, I don’t know how you can let Shep continue calling defensive plays.

8 Likes
11

Sure. And the sooner you start the better right? Dan was able to change Morton’s role last year without throwing him under the bus or firing him mid-season. That was a more diplomatic way of saying a) you weren’t cutting it b) and that I personally hired the wrong guy. But it moved the process along, turning a fault into a potential correction.

In addition. These guys wait waaaaay too long to play the players they draft/hire. If things aren’t working out and it’s not correctable, then put other players on the field and give them a chance to play and get their feet wet. This allows you to evaluate your roster better so that next draft / FA period you know who to cut and where you’re weak with better precision.

On film pre-draft, to me Abney looked like a guy that had killer instincts. I had high hopes for him as one of their better draft choices. The kind of guy that can retrofit and adapt. Put him out there and play him. (I think the Lions are warming up to that finally based on what I’m hearing out of Allen Park)

2 Likes
12

Many analysts, announcers and former players have mentioned how confused the Lions Back 7 looks and the disconnect between the groups so it’s not just Lions fans saying this. Just watch the games and see how offenses go to the same well over and over again with great success and no resistance from the defense or adjustments. Sorry but this isn’t solely a player personnel issue, no way no how. It’s not like there’s a bunch of rookies in the back 7 either, it’s mostly guys who have been in the league multiple years.

Will firing Shep cure all ails? Of course not but he’s certainly not putting these guys in the best position to succeed. It’s a perfect shit storm of lack of talent in the secondary and poor coaching.

4 Likes
13

Can’t agree more with what @Davicus says.

While this is true, it’s being way overemphasized by many, most especially those who fancy themselves as next in line for Brad’s job if they can just manage to get him fired.

These are still legit NFL players in the secondary, and they’re playing in front of a really, really good front 7.

I’d be far more understanding of the personnel argument if the criticism was about why the defense is merely #19 rather than top-5. That’s not what we’re talking about. This hasn’t just been the worst defense in the league, it’s been one of the worst of all time. That isn’t the result of being down a handful of players.

This is the crux of the issue.

If the coaching of the defense was replacement level (let’s say Steve Wilks), there’s enough talent where I would expect them to be somewhere around 20th in the league, even with the injuries. While the secondary is depleted, there are strengths elsewhere. This should be at least a functional defense with competent coaching. There’s just no way to explain this unit being one of the worst ever thus far without it going back to scheme and playcalling.

Unfortunately, this is the part that people are struggling with.

There’s simply not that much that can be done at the moment. People are frothing at the mouth because “nothing is being done”. Every day, they come here twice as mad because nothing has been done in the last 24 hours to somehow fix the problem.

If something happens it won’t be until the bye at the very earliest. Even then, it’s just going to be an internal promotion to interim DC, and the new guy is only really going to be able to tweak calls, especially right away. It’s just not possible to install a whole new defense during the season.

I hope the silver lining of this utter disaster is that it helps Dan grow as a coach, specifically by rubbing his face in this particular blind spot of his. I think AG was replacement-level as a coordinator for the majority of his time here, and Dan didn’t upgrade because AG was a good leader and a good guy, and the results weren’t detrimental. I really hope Dan people he respects pointing out that this Shep situation is the continuation of a trend, not one-off bad luck.

1 Like
14

I personally think it’s less about short term fixes and more about a long term culture showing we won’t tolerate what we’ve tolerated for history of this team.

I get the concern on “who would replace him” or “will it make us better” but that’s a separate thing to me.

For me its two questions:

  1. is this result acceptable for talent we have on D?

  2. is Shep the guy?

From there, everything else is noise. You won’t all agree and it’s fine. I deal with this everyday in work life. Sometimes you need to move on just to show improved standards.

With that said, I don’t think he did himself any favors with his press conference. Good lord

4 Likes
15

This is a tank season for optimal positioning in the 2027 draft. Shep is the fall guy.

1 Like
16

If that’s the case, can fans going to games expect half price tickets and $5 beers the rest of the season?

1 Like
17

If you come to the game in Munich, I’ll teach you the correct pronunciation!

1 Like
18

I would love to, I actually have an uncle and his fam that live in Hamburg that I’d also like to visit again someday…I considered it when the schedule released, but unfortunately that trip isnt in the cards for me this year.

1 Like
19

The secondary isn’t good enough talent wise to be a good defense but it’s not bad enough talent wise to be historically bad. That’s coaching.

There’s other NFL teams every week that run out comparable or even worst talent than we do in the back 7 and have better results and there’s teams that run out more talent than we do like Dallas and still get set on fire.

Shep’s coaching decisions would have us as a mediocre to poor defense with 4 all pros in the secondary

4 Likes
20

No.

They must maintain plausible deniability.