I think that’s were he is most effective on the inside. I like him more as a Donald type then puting him outside.
Would be interesting to see what the Lions did with him. Try and get him up to 285-290 and play him inside or keep him at 275 and play him on the edge.
He didn’t have massive production for two reasons IMO;
1.) Georgia has been extremely talented. It’s tough to get on the field for a ton of reps required for production.
2.) He moved all over the place in that scheme for the benefit of his team. If they’d been focused on how to get Travon Walker drafted as highly as possible, they’d have stuck him on the edge and told him to go get the QB.
So he is a bit more of a projection because of this, but the raw athletic tools are off the charts. And the football character/motor/toughness are unquestioned. He could turn out to be a grand slam pick at 2OA
On top of all that I’d add that he dropped 10-15 pounds to test at a more prototypical edge size. So he could have some upside because of that as well if it’s made him even more athletic.
1 Like
Walker’s got my vote at #2, if Hutch goes #1…I love JJ, but there’s got to be a significant reason why he 's listed in the mid-teens, despite team pedigree, 11.5 sacks and rated the #5 DE by Tankathon.
Would be hysterical if Hutch goes #1 and Ojabo goes #2 to the Lions !!!..For a team that got blown out by the Dawgs, to have the TOP 2 Pics in the 2022 Draft from the losing team, and both players be DE’s…Never happened am sure in the history of the NFL. Doubtful, it will happen…But it COULD !!
All of this is totally legit, and he may well prove to be a huge get because of it, almost like a first-round sleeper. And yet, I have a hard time taking a “potential” guy second overall. Like, you can make that kind of projection later in the draft, even later in the first round. But if you have to “project” that the guy you’re saying is the second-best player in the draft could be really productive, isn’t that a red flag on its own?
3 Likes
Yeah for sure, and in a normal class you’d hope you wouldn’t have to. But this isn’t a normal class at the top, and despite the shade thrown at drafting traits over production, sometimes it works out. It happens all the time at QB (Allen, Herbert, Stafford, etc…), but also with Rashan Gary, Byron Jones, Ziggy, Asomugha, Oweh, Steph Gilmore, etc…
But my favorite comp is Trent Williams. He was moved all over the Oklahoma line in college (even played center) which didn’t allow him to really master one position, which is similar to what happened to Walker. Most pundits agreed his upside was tremendous especially after his testing, but Russell Okung was seen as the safer guy and would end up going ahead of him. Whoops.
So for a guy like Walker, I think you have to look for reasons why he didn’t produce the way you might have wanted him to, and to me those reasons are obvious: Georgia’s rotation, their style of defense (Adam Anderson played the “rush” edge, which was really more of an OLB), his size (he dropped weight for the combine), and the fact he was lined up all over the place and never really allowed to focus on edge. All of that makes him a better guy to gamble on, IMO.
3 Likes
Yeah that’s precisely my view right now. I would take Thibs over Walker because his production is there on tape for a longer stretch.
Kinda leaning that way myself? Even with my concerns about Thibodeaux, he’s been viewed as the consensus #1 or #2 edge defender in college football since before last season. Passing on that for a guy who you have to project his production, and possibly his position, could work out, but it sure feels like “smartest guy in the room” syndrome.
2 Likes
I’m down with all this, and if we were picking at even like #5 (like when we gambled on Ansah), I’d say WTF, let’s roll the dice. But at #2? I think I’m leaning towards sticking with the more known and proven commodity.
It’s honestly a little weird to see people bending over backwards to ignore Walker’s question marks to justify using the #2 pick, but taking a magnifying glass to Thib’s question marks to disqualify him. I’m not judging–I find myself doing exactly the same thing. But I genuinely wonder what that’s all about. Like, what’s going on psychologically that makes people over-value question marks in a more known commodity, while under-valuing question marks in an unknown one? There’s probably some long German word to describe it…
2 Likes
It’s prospect fatigue vs. the hot new thing. On tape Thibs is the slam dunk pick, I’m really hoping we pick him - because it will mean we’ve done our homework and are comfortable with him. Walker only comes into play if our FO decides they can’t work with Thibs. I’d also have Johnson and (gasp) Sauce in play too.
And for as much as I don’t think Willis will pan out, if our FO believes he will they basically have to take him. I really hope we don’t but if we do I’ll back it 100%.
2 Likes
This take just changed my perspective, since it’s precisely what I’m guilty of. I’m now back to, “Whatever we end up with at No. 2 is probably a No. 12 in any other draft class.”
Biggest thing about KT is the remark about Oregon coaches not running to his defense. Not awesome for him.
If this was ever the draft to forgive a miss or a bad reach (or the lack of an opportunity to trade back, because … why?), it’s this one. So at least Holmes has that going for him. He basically gets a mulligan in round 1.
2 Likes
My thoughts as well
I hope you’re right and that is why I don’t really have a good feeling as to who our pick would be if Hutch is gone before we pick.
1 Like
Travon does seem like a good kid.
2 Likes
That part was bizarre. Why tell teams you are doing all the drills and then bail on it?
Yeah that was strange indeed. There’s no doubt that if your the Lions you really need to dig into his mental side to see if he’s the kind of guy you want on your team. If he’s that flaky where you don’t entirely trust him to be a true professional then you don’t pick him period. If that’s the case then I would definitely pick Walker over him.
4 Likes
And how do you tell the press and more importantly your coaches this?
“there’s nothing (a coach) can tell me that I don’t already know, and that’s because I’m honest with myself and I watch the tape.”
5 Likes
Lol. Don’t really see this debate as indicative of a psychological condition, but I suppose anything is possible here in the Den.
The way I see it, several here just acknowledged Walkers biggest question mark- low statistical production, offered a couple of reasons for it, and admitted he was more of a projection than you might like at #2 because of it. Weird year to say the least.
Walker’s givens are character, toughness, motor and his totally bonkers RAS score which indicates, as a raw athlete, he’s about as big a freak as you’re ever going to find at DE. He’s special. Could he disappoint or bust? Sure. Every single pick is a risk. Could he become the Josh Allen of DEs? Yes. He’s got that kind of upside.
KT on the other hand has racked up considerable production in tackles, TFLs, and sacks. He has been one of the top defenders in the nation for 3 years. He is a rocket off the edge and a force to be reckoned with. There’s no doubt. HOWEVER…there are a couple of red flags which is why we’re even having this discussion. Those red flags are concerning. IMO they are more concerning than low production.
Could KT turn out to be the Justin Herbert of edge rushers ? Sure. But what if he turns into the Antonio Brown of edge rushers and refuses to play? Or starts to take himself out of practice for strange reasons, or sits out of a playoff game because of a feud with his coach? If there are indications he’s emotionally immature and can’t handle the ups and downs of an intense environment like the NFL, then you have to seriously consider passing on KT in order to eliminate that risk despite his production and upside.
I get it. It’s tough. Would I root like crazy for KT if he’s the pick? Heck yeah. Would I do the same if Walker is the pick? Yep. I’m good with either at 2 assuming Hutch is gone. But KT’s flaky behavior scares me more than Walkers inexperience.
2 Likes
The idea of taking Walker over Thibodeaux seems asinine to me but what do I know
2 Likes
To me this discussion comes with the caveat “only if our FO decides they can’t work with Thibs.” Then these are the guys I’d look at. Otherwise Thibs should be the easy pick.
1 Like