Gave:
Matthew Stafford
2022 2nd (34OA - Christian Watson (GB))
2022 3rd (66OA - Brian Asamoah (MIN))
Received:
Jared Goff
2021 3rd (101OA - Ifeatu Melifonwu)
2022 1st (12OA - Jameson Williams)
2022 2nd (46OA - Josh Paschal)
2023 1st (via LAR)
I’ll do my best to publish the final details next year when the trade will probably be complete.
We couldn’t have gotten a #12 and a #46 for a #32.
Shouldn’t it involve pick 32 which was Lewis Cine?
its’ 1/2 of #12, as there were other factors that came into play to complicate it.
Way I see it (simplified)
We got …
-Goff
-Iffy
-1/2 of what it took to get Williams (really more complicated than that)
-31 overall next year.
Yes, breaking it down you almost need to go to a draft value chart and assign points but that just moves the needle slightly from your “1/2 of what it took to get Williams” take. I think your take is much closer.
Here’s the logic…
If you look at the Jameson trade in isolation, it’s this…
12 and 46 for 32, 34, and 66.
That’s why we get 12 and 46 and give 34 and 66 in the trade above.
32 came from the Stafford deal which ties this all together. We did not have 32 before the Stafford deal, so that’s why it’s not listed above. We didn’t give up Stafford and the 32nd pick for the package we received. Stafford became the 32nd pick, among other things which are also listed, so we didn’t give up 2 assets to make the trade for Jamo. We turned one asset into another few assets, and then traded one of those for Jameson and Paschal.
I look at it this way.
The trade of No. 34 for 46 is a complete wash since it appears Holmes would’ve taken Josh Paschal at No. 34 anyway. If that’s true, the net loss from the pick is zero.
That leaves the accounting for Nos. 32 & 66.
In the scheme of things, it would not be unreasonable to view the acquisition of 2021 3rd Rd pick Melifonwu as a wash for giving up 2022 Rd 3, No. 66.
So, essentially, the No. 32 overall was used to acquire No. 12 Jameson Williams.
So far…
The net result: Goff + J-Will + 2023 1st Rd Rams pick for Stafford.
-52 mil
I need a flow chart.
There’s just really no way to do a 1:1 accounting of the trade, too many subsequent trades are pick packages. It helped us to get Jameson, just like next year it might help us get Young or Stroud.
I get the logic here. This is one way to look at it, basically the Stafford deal + any players / picks that touch it because of trades.
Obviously this wasn’t one big deal, but it’s interesting to look at it from this perspective.
What do you see in these guys? I know the consensus is that they re really good…but why?
Just curious the traits you see, as I have almost zero experience watching them.
I feel it is EXTREMELY difficult to get a QB.
Goff is the 2nd to best Lions QB in my lifetime.
For me:
Stafford
Landry
Munson
Danielson
Goff
Mitchell
Kramer
Kitna
Hipple
Peete
Batch
Harrington
…others.
I was alive for Layne, but don’t remember him. He would probably be ahead of Stafford.
I haven’t done a full notebook-out deep dive into them yet but it’s easy to see just from watching their games how much better they are than any of this year’s prospects. Picking QBs is hard, but to me the easiest choices are the guys who 1) have the traits, and 2) show NFL-level processing.
Stroud has a rocket for an arm, is a plus athlete, and has a preternatural gift for moving through his progressions. After some early season accuracy struggles he caught fire over the last half of the season and showed great anticipation on his throws. He’s just got a really refined, pro ready game for someone so young. Showed a lot of mental toughness in their fightback against Utah too.
Young isn’t the physical specimen Stroud is, he’s got an above-average arm and what I’d call sneaky athleticism. Kinda like Mahomes level movement skills, I’d say. No burner, but dangerous if you don’t pay attention. And he’s not the biggest guy in the world. Where he thrives is with accuracy, poise under pressure (nobody stands in the pocket better), he moves through his progressions with ease… in fact the best way to describe Young might be that it’s hard to find anything he doesn’t do well. He’s at least solid at almost every aspect of playing QB, and with a lot of it he’s elite.
I’m not anti-Goff, but I also have realistic expectations for him. Can he lead us to a Super Bowl? Yes, I believe he can if everything goes right. But how often does everything go right? What I want is a guy who can carry us there when everything’s going wrong, a la Joe Burrow (9 sacks) or Josh Allen. And until we have that guy, I will always be looking for him.
Awesome…great post @Thats2 , this is why i love this board.
In watching Jamo highlights, it seems that every deep pass to him from Young was perfect. Maybe we keep up the trend of re-uniting dynamic college duo’s. Although I’d prefer Stroud.
Early season accuracy issues were caused by an AC joint sprain in his throwing shoulder that happened on a rare run from him in the Minnesota game to start the season. He sat the Akron game to rest the shoulder and it did wonders for him. I have a feeling that he became so hesistant to run because he got hurt doing it in his first start. I mean he clearly can. His only carry in his freshman year was a 48 yard touchdown.
I agree with this take from what I’ve seen of Bryce. I am concerned that he’s only 5’11" though. If that.
Stroud definitely has the better build and better arm, and it’s possible he separates himself as the better prospect this year as well. What I want to see from him is the intangible stuff. I want to see him drag them to victory when maybe they don’t deserve it (granted he won’t have a lot of opportunities for that at Ohio State, but when he does). I want to see him stand tall in the face of pressure. I want to see him dominate. I think he’s fully capable of doing all of that, it will be fun to watch.
The taller the better, obviously, but I’m OK with it in his case. I think he’s got borderline sublime pocket movement skills/escapability, which helps him immensely to open up passing lanes. And he throws it great on the move. Twenty years ago it would have bothered me more, but in today’s world of “off-platform”, I think he’ll be just fine. As long as his offense doesn’t handcuff him.
This is HUGE for me. I believe in the strength of the human spirit so much. I have seen people do more with faith and “knowing” that nobody thought they ever could (myself included).
I know a lot of ppl are down on my take on energy, and it’s sooooo esoteric that it’s hard to describe. What you’re describing, I’ll probably start watching this dude. It’s why I liked Eric Kramer better tan Peete, back in the day.
Energy is why Michael Jordan was better than Sean Elliot. Elliot was a perennial Allstar who had similar measurables to Mike…but he didn’t produce the way Mike did. Why? That thang…the leadership energy…the “knowingness” that goes WAY beyond confidence.
Jerry Stackhouse had it. He wasn’t as talented, or as tall, but he had that energy. Think of the difference between Jordan and Grant Hill (probably the best comparison of all of them). Grant Hill is such a good man. Love that MF’r. Grant is more intellectual, where Jordan is in touch with his primal warrior. It’s truly a lost art, these days.
Bring me a tough MF’r @ QB.
Identical to my opinion, man. Love Goff…still want better.
Yup. Honestly I think he needs to be the toughest guy on the team, at least mentally. He doesn’t have to act tough, he just needs to actually be tough. Like Joe Montana for example.
That’s why I advocate for throwing a QB onto the field for his rookie year. You find out real quick what the guy’s made of. And to me, if a QB struggles his first year and never bounces back from it, well that QB wasn’t gonna pan out anyway. He doesn’t have the mental toughness required to play QB in the NFL.
From what I’ve seen both Stround and Young have the right kind of toughness. Resilience. That’s what I want in my QB. That and an assload of talent heh heh.
YES! Someone the other day was comparing the Joe Montana “cool as a cucumber” energy to Goffs…and they were RIGHT! And alllllsoooo…Joe has that “knowingness” that goes light years beyond confidence. Joe alllllsoooo has the warrior stuff. It’s not always as overt.
There are many ways to break down energy. All people have MANY types of energy at once. I try to keep it ultra simple, and still get misunderstood. Think of Mike Tyson. Think of Muhammad Ali. Both were 10 out of 10 warriors. Mike was responding to fear like an ultimate pure warrior. Ali was more charismatic about it, where mike was darker. There is a shadow side of warrior as well as a light side. Truthfully, I have seen this broken down a lot of different ways, and the most thorough is that there are 64 different possible archetypes (energies) that run humans. Each has a light and shadow side…so there are 128 different potential energies, technically.
I don’t blame ppl for giving me the eye roll, when I talk about this stuff. It would take me 2 years to teach you guys what I know about this stuff. I’m trying to crunch it into a 3 minute post. Once in awhile, my inner child kicks in and I want to give others an eye roll too, when they want to debunk the importance of energy and/or invalidate my work/education.
IMO → If Goff were an NBA player…he’d be Grant Hill.
IMO → we are better off with a Dennis Rodman.
That’s breaking it down into 2 sentences. I want a Dennis Rodman energy, as it pertains to that particular archetype.