Richard Sherman agrees
So you picked a good player with speed that struggled as a rookie to prove what exactly? LOL
Most CB’s struggle as rookies no matter how fast or slow they are. Okudah could very well suck this year as well. Honestly, I’d be surprised if they didn’t bring Okudah along slowly and he doesn’t start this season anyways to preserve his confidence…but MP might tell him he’s not good enough to practice with any good players and to quit sucking their dick to humble him too, so who knows.
Why is everybody talking like 4.48 is something to overcome? It’s not slow. Combine numbers are used to check tape. Okudah is fast on film. And his numbers show good long speed to go with incredible explosiveness and size at cb.
I hope the evaluations are better than the Tabor evaluations.
His size and speed is not an issue at all. His vertical is nice. His bench press is kind of sad and weak, but that can be improved on without coaching in a matter of weeks…
His play in college gave me some red flags to be sure, but it doesn’t mean he will be the same player in the NFL. He will have to improve some of his techniques, grabbing and timing, but that’s what coaches are for.
right? I think this is a valid concern. Quinn whiffed hard on Tabor and IMO that is the real reason why everybody is so worried about his speed.
Because someone was saying he had “elite athleticism” or something like that, so others are showing that person that’s not necessarily correct.
Right Farmer. I posted earlier in this thread that a lack of athletic ability isn’t what derailed Tabor here in 2017, 2018 or 2019 (before he got cut). If you read the Mlive link about Tabor in 2017 he thought he had arrived. Last in the building and first to leave. His skills did not improve at all in 2017 or 2018.
I’m not sure how Tabor’s attitude didn’t filter through meetings with him pre-draft. He was really good in college but he didn’t work very hard here. I find it interesting that we drafted Jarrad Davis AND Tabor from Florida in 2017…but we have not gone back to that Florida well since.
We have drafted multiple guys from Alabama, Michigan, Ohio State (4 guys counting Jonah Jackson) and Arkansas. Also Georgia now too. That doesn’t mean anything specific but it is interesting.
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CB Quincy Wilson, also from Florida, taken in the 2017 2d Rd by the Colts has also been a bust.
@MyLions Please listen to me and stop drawing conclusions that I don’t say. Just listen to what I DO say. Your drawing an awful lot of conclusions that I never made.
Why do you think I am disregarding their conclusion? I am not.
I have said myself (many times) that I think he’s the most NFL ready CB. I also said that I think he’s the most complete CB. Doesn’t this match up with PFF rankings? … I think it does.
I am also saying the following a) He wasn’t worthy of a 3OA pick. B) He’s a step behind the Elite CB’s mentioned above. C) In the long run I think CJ will be the better pro… All can be true.
Why is it your so hung up on speed and seem to think that’s all I care about? I have stated many times that this belief of yours is inaccurate. Speed and acceleration are just one important factor.
I do think speed for a CB is a coveted trait. Especially on turf but that’s NOT the only trait that I think is important.
Why is it that if a poster claims that Okudah is the second coming of Deion Sanders and a guaranteed perennial pro bowler.
Then the next poster comes along and says. Whoa pump the brakes here. I like the kid but he’s not that good. Then points to the reasons why.
The first poster and others automatically assume he’s a hater and is completely wrong. Sometimes this board goes crazy when someone points out a flaw. They over-react to it too.
Do you really believe he will be a probowler as a rookie like Ward? Do you really believe he will win defensive rookie of the year like Lattimore?
I think some of you have some high expectations for Okudah.
How about we make a fun bet here and put this to rest.
When Okudah fails to make the probowl as a rookie and fails to be Defensive rookie of the year then you put a signature in every post of yours for a week that Air2theThrown was right and that you were over-valuing Okudah.
If by chance he makes the Probowl as a rookie and becomes Defensive rookie of the year then I will put a signature at the end of each post I make for a week that MyLions was right and I was under-valuing Okudah.
Deal …Do we have a bet?.. if not then your beliefs are far from mine.
I do appreciate the debate and discussion. I respect you as a poster too.
Thanks
Except it is not a zero sum game. You can be in Detroit and do all the right things and not get any national accolades. Not really interested in the hardware. The key is how does he do on the field for the Lions. I hope he does well enough that he should earn DFOR or a Probowl nod but if he plays well and still does not get those “honors” it in no way reflects on how he played vs. players that did.
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I think we’re all bored and need football ASAP 
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This is where a difference of opinion on what constitutes value, because I don’t believe that missing out on the Pro Bowl and rookie of the year means I was over-valuing him.
FIrst off, as Valion pointed out, we’re the Lions. Okudah could have the best damn year a rookie has ever had and he still might not get the respect he deserves. The pro bowl is a popularity contest, and to a lesser extent so is ROY. Our players don’t tend to be very popular.
Second, here’s a list of the CBs that didn’t make pro bowl or win ROY their rookie seasons: Stephon Gilmore, Darrelle Revis, Darius Slay, Deion Sanders, Champ Bailey, Aeneas Williams (despite a great rookie season), Ty Law, Jalen Ramsey, Aqib Talib, Nnamdi Asomugha, on and on and on. I think Okudah has the potential to make it as a rookie, but I won’t consider a bad - or bad value - pick if he doesn’t. I just need to see progress.
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Air…I am not taking that bet because the Pro Bowl is a meaningless achievement as is rookie of the year. Many, many players make the Pro Bowl every season who don’t deserve it and more still don’t make the Pro Bowl when they do deserve it. For example…Matt Stafford didn’t make the Pro Bowl in 2011 but Eli Manning and Cam Newton did mae that Pro Bowl? I could list snubs and reaches every season for this meaningless accomplishment.
I don’t have a beef or issues Air with what you are saying Air…EXCEPT…this comment:
“I am also saying the following a) He wasn’t worthy of a 3OA pick. B) He’s a step behind the Elite CB’s mentioned above. C) In the long run I think CJ will be the better pro… All can be true.”
Okudah simply isn’t a step behind many of the best CBs that are some of the elite CBs in the game. You are assigning a standard that notes Okudah is a step behind the “elite CBs mentioned above” when in fact Okudah has numbers better/similar than many of the game’s top CBs right now.
Guys like Byron Jones who ran a 4.43 at his Pro Day with a 2.52 20 and a 1.50 10. Remember, that is Byron PRO DAY numbers (Byron Jones - CB - Connecticut - 2015 Draft Scout/NCAA College Football) and they line up with Okudah’s numbers. Certainly Okudah’s numbers would have come down too as that is how Pro Days work. Xavier Rhodes ran a 4.43 with a 2.59 20 and 1.59 10. Desmond Trufant…4.38 with a 2.54 and 1.50 20 and 10. Xavien Howard with a 4.58 40 (*Xavien Howard - CB - Baylor - 2016 Draft Scout/NCAA College Football) with a 2.67 20 and 1.61 10…Xavien Howard has the speed that lines up almost directly as Howard who was a 2nd rd. pick but is now one of the best CBs in the game. Stephon Gilmore tran a 4.40 40 with a 2.54 and a 1.52 20 and 10. Patrick Peterson with a 4.38 40 and a 2.58 and 1.5 20 and 10. Most of these guys do in fact have better 40, 20 and 10 numbers but not all and the numbers are really close. And these are pretty much the best of the best right now (2019 NFL season: Patrick Peterson leads top 10 cornerbacks).
I am sorry to list so many guys but many of these guys are tops in the game now.
I am not putting Okudah in the Hall of Fame! For the Lions to have a solid secondary Okudah simply has to be better than Rashaad Melvin year one and Trufant better than 2019 Slay. That makes me happy year one. I do think Okudah starts day one too as I think he is more prepared for this job than Amani.
I have ZERO issue with disagreement. I think Swift was the best RB in this draft for example…but he didn’t get drafted first! I have zero issue with folks thinking Henderson will be better. But I don’t like opinions based on speed and athleticism as those are traits that can fool a person. If someone thinks Henderson is mentally tougher for example I would get that argument. But knocking Okudah down because of his 40, 20 and 10 just doesn’t make sense to me as those numbers ain’t that bad when shown in the light of the top CBs in the league right now.
Oh well…we can easily leave it here as we don’t need the big VLGs back and forths. I love the game of football. It is a mentally and physically tough sport. And the best athlete often loses in this game as football is bigger than how fast someone can run a straight line. It is about toughness and the will to dominate. The will to win against your opponent. And athletic RAS scores don’t measure any of that kind of stuff but that is the essence of football.
As a fan it is hard to measure that kind of stuff too of course. In terms of Okudah…I am buying the stories about assistant coaches and film study and conversations deep into the night. I am buying the motivation received from his Mother. I am buying the tough love from his coach. Might I be wrong there? Yep. But I know RAS scores are not something I put as much faith in…just like Pro Bowl appearances and Rookie of the Year designations.
Hold on. You don’t like people knocking Okudah because of his speed but it’s ok to form an opinion on how good a player can be on his “mental toughness”?
Although it’s by no means an exact science or always a direct correlation to success, at least speed is something you can measure and put a number to. Saying Okudah is going to be good because his mom died while in college?..yeah, measure that stat once and see what kind of correlation you get.
Sorry, I’m with Air. Okudah is on the slower side of great CB’s…and of course there are the outliers like Sherman and Norman but most guys that run a little slower than Okudah, aren’t in the NFL.
Those guys aren’t part of the topic at hand. The OP asked about two specific players. Those two players had better numbers and measurables than Okudah in nearly every measurable category when they came out.
That’s like someone asking you if Stafford is better than P. Mahomes? Then you reply yes he is because his numbers are better than Marcus Mariota’s.
On the probowl topic - When a rookie makes the probowl it’s not because he’s popular. They haven’t been in the league long enough to be popular. Ward did it in the Cleveland brown who get less respect than the Lions do. If your good enough to make it as a rookie on a Cleveland Browns team than you had one damn good season. Ward did.
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Nailed it. I am not a huge pro bowl goon, but rarely do they pick guys who weren’t at least very good compared to their peers. Yes, you can come up with some outliers in everything. Sometimes guys make a pro bowl with lesser stats, but people forget that those players may have been instrumental in various games that got their team to the playoffs or whatnot.
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At the time the voting ended, only 12 games had been played. At that point, Stafford had a rather pedestrian 27 TDs to 14 INTs ratio.
In the last 4 games, which weren’t considered by voters, Stafford had 14 TDs, only 2 INTs, threw for 1511 yards, and completed 65% of his passes.
Thus, Pro Bowl selection is a poor measure because it doesn’t consider performance in 25% of the games.
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On the topic of Pro Bowl appearances, Matt Stafford and Mitch Trubisky have the same number of Pro Bowls.
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Ewww now thats just gross. Those two are not even close to comparable.
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