Snags doesn’t like me. He only responds to a post of mine with insulting comments and memes…
He did make a good counter point with showing that swift was only highly productive in 1 of his 3 games. (I would argue 2 but it’s whatever). But when I did the same he reverts back to insults and condescending comments. As if I am inferior and he understands football more than I do.
I have no problem admitting I might be wrong sometimes. He’s a never back down, stick to his guns type. But just to be clear, I am not saying I’m wrong about who is more important to the offense. Swift, when healthy, is an elite RB. ARSB is a very solid possession WR. Im not saying that’s not important, but those types aren’t that difficult to find. He isn’t a field stretcher, and does virtually all his damage on short yardage. I think his two career long in catches are both on blow coverages and were throws to the intermediate zone. He’s an elite complimentary WR IMO. But because Goff is an extremely conservative, check down machine, ARSB really shines with him. Swift on the other hand is an elite talent. Unfortunately, he will probably never reach his potential due to the injury issues.
It’s Swift>ARSB in terms of importance to an offense. But because Goff is our QB, the gap is closer than it should be.
Seriously swift will continue to average over 6ypc with the offensive line we have. That is so much more valuable in terms of moving the chains than what ARSB does. I totally understand Snags point, but to suggest a RB that constantly makes 2nd and 3rd down easier is less important than what ARSB does is silly to me.
I agree with Snags that ARSB is a bigger cog in this machine overall. Going back to last year when Ben took over the offense ARSB is the common denominator. And also had the best WR rookie season in history of the Lions. Broke almost every record. His emergence correlated with the offense clicking and Goff jumping into top ten QBR
Swift had little to do with last year. Hell, remember our most convincing win last year against the Cards? Craig Reynolds was the RB and ARSB still had almost a hundy yards with a long of 40
As importantly, ARSB is an excellent blocker while Swift, though an electric runner, is one of the worst pass blocking backs in the league
I’m not trying to be confrontational but you, along with some other posters, put a lot of stock in that last 6 games of last season. They mean so very little in terms of significance to this team or debate even. We beat the Vikings (this was a decent win), but we were a winless team and nobody wants to go winless. The Cardinals who were in complete shambles and in the middle of one of the worst collapses I’ve seen in the nfl that I can remember. And the packers who started their JV team. Our 3 losses we scored 10, 16, 29pts. During that same 6 game stretch we averaged 354ypg and 25.1ppg. Those two numbers would’ve slotted Detroit 16th and 14th over the course of the season. Pretty average…yet those who referred to it often in defense of why this team (Goff especially) showed what they can do really was nothing special at all. I will say what ARSB did down the stretch was very impressive for a rookie. And Goff did have one of the higher QBR over that span too. But it didn’t result in some dynamic offense like some suggest. It was still just average at best.
All this being said, due to the sample size being used of the last 6 games and the first 3 this year, sure ARSB has a direct correlation to importance over swift. Swift didn’t play a large majority of it, so of course it fits this narrative. I just simply do not believe it to be true. Call me crazy but ranking average in both points and yards during that amazing stretch isn’t impressive for me. Nor is it a legit sample size. And the first 3 games this year swift played two of them hurt.
Anyway that’s my stance, love ARSB and he’s gonna be around here a long time I believe. While swift due to injury concerns probably won’t be. I think that resinates with Lions fans in this debate also. Wouldn’t want to say a RB who is probably gone after next year is as important or more so than our hopeful career WR. But if I could have a career healthy Swift, vs a ARSB. I’m taking Swift and it isn’t even a close decision.
It might be a relatively small sample size but the last six games of last season plus the first few of this season are nearly all the games of the offense since Ben took over
Sure we may have played some underwhelming teams but again ARSB had the best rookie WR season in team history. That includes Moore and CJ. It was the fifth most catches for a rookie in league history. It’s impressive in any context
Plus being a solid blocker is important in this offense. That’s why the Lions went and got Williams and why he gets so many snaps. Williams ranks first in pass-blocking grades from PFF over the past two years, while Swift ranked 108th in 2021
What we have in Swift is a nice niche weapon who is capable of breaking a long run on running downs and a slot receiver on passing downs but brings a liability in protection and can’t stay healthy
One of the things that makes ARSB great is he is a legitimate pass blocking threat and can run deep routes from the slot. We saw Ben use him this way too. Some of his big plays last year came from a blocking look where he slipped into open space downfield. If he was a poor blocker (like Swift) the defense could assume the block was either going to be fake or ineffective and render misdirection on the play more useless
But to your point, philosophically, an elite back could be more important to this offense than ARSB. If we had a back with the explosiveness of Swift, could pass protect like Williams, run people over like Henry with Dalvin Cooks vision then we would essentially have Marshall Faulk. And everyone here would be talking about how amazing this offense is churning and how great Goff looks
It’s a top 10 offense with everyone healthy. But because we have the worst defense by far in the NFL, the numbers will be inflated due to have to score and comeback a lot. So it would probably be top 5 statistically.
But if this team had a decent D, the offense is probably between 8-10 range IMO.
St Brown would have never had the season he had with more options, he was literally the only wr we had worth a Damm until Reynolds showed up , on top of that the QB is a guy that checks it down when ever possible so there is a fit there. St Brown is a great player that makes the most out of his opportunities. And with Goff he will get a ton of them.
We’re all good on my end. But when you say that my feeling that ASRB is the player that makes this offense hum is laughable, then don’t be mad because I have some fun with you with my Gif’s. You’re basically saying, haha your take is so dumb I laugh at you. So don’t come back and say, “well Snags just insults me”, it’s a two way street brother.
Also, I don’t dislike you, I just think we see things differently. I just ask that you prove to me why you feel so strongly the way you do with some data or whatever.
I feel like in your responses you’ve said that Goff and ASRB are a match made in heaven and that you agreed a few times now that ASRB was the reason this offense had been so good. You just like Swift better and that’s fine. I’ve agreed that Swift is more electric and is a weapon that can take it to the house any time he touches the ball…see, I’m agreeing with you there.
First downs are a big deal and the more you get the more plays you get to break off a great run by Swift. ASRB isn’t really a home-run threat but he does all the dirty work and maybe even gets the block that springs your boy Swifty for a big play.
ASRB set or tied (can’t remember) a record for the most games of 8+ catches in a row with 8. Like, do you understand how important that is to keeping your offense out there and scoring more points, even if it’s not ASRB not scoring them?
You can say because all Goff does is throw short passes but you can probably also agree that our O-line hasn’t been as good as we had hoped. How has Stafford looked this year with no O-line? You have to look at the big picture, granted I’m not saying Goff would throw as many deep passes as Matthew if they had the same O-line but hopefully you get my point.
Like or dislike Goff, I don’t care, that’s your choice. But you can’t say that "you don’t grade a QB in the bad times (without most of his team around him) but we’ve not really seen Josh Allen without most of his team around him so you’re not comparing apples to apples. Do you really believe Josh Allen would look the same here in Detroit the last 2 years?..shit, I hope you don’t think that.
I don’t know if I said that ARSB being thekey to this offense is laughable. And if I did, That’s just me exaggerating to prove a point. And I’m pretty sure I wouldn’t use the term laughable unless it’s in retaliation to an insult. I don’t just use negative or derogatory terms towards another poster without be triggered first. But if I did I apologize.
As far as the Josh Allen and Jared Goff grades topic. Josh Allen is an A+ for me due to his abilities not anything to do with his results. He’s above an A at literally everything for me from a talent and intangibles perspective. Goff is a C+ for me for a lot of reasons. He doesn’t have A arm strength, has bad pocket presence, hate his intangibles (leadership, demeanor, toughness), but he does have A accuracy. From a talent standpoint, he’s a C+ for me.
I used the argument “you can’t judge a QB just on his good games,” because that’s what the Goff supporters like to do. They see his 6 week stretch last year, his 4 game stretch this year, and that’s who he is. I was using a rating scale based off of that argument. Goff just isn’t super talented. If C is average, he is a C+, slightly above. There isn’t much he does really well and there are a few things he does or has that is below what you want (or I should say I want). And again, I feel like I’m beating a dead horse but I’m gonna say it again. Every QB is going to be highly successful with a lot of talent around them. Goff is no different.
I will say that because Goff is our QB, I can get behind ARSB as the top reason this offense goes. But a healthy swift and a healthy ARSB, regardless of what QB is playing, Swift is more valuable. I’m not backing down from that stance lol. If he could stay healthy, he’s one of the best 5 RBs in football. That’s probably never going to be the case though.
Agreed!
Defenses having to account for those two players vs not having to account for those two players actually matters. Same when only one of them isn’t playing.
