Desean Jackson comments

Off-Topic Tavern
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that is the kind of half-baked reasoning that people use to justify their views on race / poverty to make people feel good about themselves when they sleep at night so they can justify the privileges they have. it’s meaningless.

the statistics and the examples i gave above (left out by you) contradict your statements here. opportunities are not equal. come on. george floyd has zero rights if someone doesn’t just happen to shoot that video. he’s just another dead “black dumb criminal” that had the same rights and opportunities as everybody else except that it’s hard to have any opportunity at all when you’re buried in a grave.

lets agree to disagree. as much as i am with you 1000% on patricia and quin (and long before you presented your “inside takes”) i feel as strongly that you are way off the mark here. i do appreciate the fact that you discourse with respect though.

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You do realize those aren’t examples right?

Some people see race and hate in places where there is none.

Education opportunities aren’t stacked against blacks

Politics aren’t stacked against blacks.

I agreed above that the legal system needs work. I personally think it’s stacked against the poor and not a particular race. But I’ll concede that there’s some bias towards the poor… but not in the law. Only in the application of it.

As for George Floyd. Just because a black man dies by the hand of a policeman doesn’t mean it’s a race problem. There’s no evidence to support that Floyd’s death was racially motivated.

A white man was just shot here in Michigan because he was holding a screw driver. Where is the media outcry for him? What do you think would happen if it were a black man who was shot?

I think that if we want equality in America we must first stop doing the things that create division. We have to be able to look at issues objectively and not emotionally.

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they were exactly examples with regard to what we’re talking about vs how you want to frame it. i won’t repeat them. others can read them if they like.

i agree with this: I think that if we want equality in America we must first stop doing the things that create division. We have to be able to look at issues objectively and not emotionally.

the difference is that we just look at it through a different lens.

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I know this is an emotional subject here.

But … you see race issues and I see social issues. I do not see a world stacked against a particular race.

This is what I mean by.

In the George Floyd case for example you see race but there is no evidence of that. I gave you a recent example of a white man killed by police. No outcry for him.

In schools you see an education system that’s unfair based on race. I see an education system that’s equal to all races. I do see a social problem for the poor.

In politics you see race issues. I see a country who elected a black president twice.

You see racial problems. I see social problems.

There is a difference.

Like I said:

It starts with the individual not the systems in place.

We all have equal opportunities.

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One example. for the justice system, Black Americans are overrepresented among the US prison population. Whites get substantial less time getting caught with cocaine than blacks get crack. Yet know talks about how these guns and drugs get into the community.
You have to understand the racist roots of America’s policing. It started from slave patrols. You have to understand the systematic design of mass incarceration. If know the 13th amendment it will make sense.

If you want to learn the history is there. Most of the time if it doesn’t effect you, there’s no reason to learn.
I don’t time for other examples but the information is out there.

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Ignorance, laziness, economics, media, lack of no non for profit news access…

Racial division driven by politics , economics, double standards , bigotry and bias …a steered agenda. When races mingled and treated each other in a manner with color or race not playing a role…harmony happens … Plain and simple, people are people with not much of a difference. Actions dictate the person

Sadly nothing will get better, no fix exists , because of how people are steered …a world of sheep is the majority …

Labels are easy . Ready made built in excuses that require no thought or accountability.

Accountability…For the love of GOD, the single worst issue that society faces . This is a shit storm and again I see no fix .

White , Black & Hispanic Assholes …The color or ethnicity is irrelevant and plays no role in being an asshole .
I say your an asshole … You respond …Because I’m (Place Color Here) ? NO because you are an asshole… The attitude of …This can’t be. because that takes accountability and self reflection , it has to be my color …all done, it’s a bias , i’m perfect and not an asshole you must be a bigot.

This world is F***ED

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Black Americans are over represented in the prison population not because they are Black.
Crimes committed…Getting caught …the frequency of both dictate prison population. ACCOUNTABILITY

Very convenient…You make a case here to remove some of the accountability of the end user with this statement. Yet this statement did not apply to your …Slavery Take. DOUBLE STANDARD

Slave patrols plays a zero role in today’s world. The History of this Country & information available is supposed to be used a learning device to better ones self as to not repeat bad history …not as a means to find a crutch or excuse for ones own actions.

It’s very simple and applies to all …Stop being a criminal and if you choose to be one …Stop getting caught & if you do get caught …Have the money to hire a good lawyer … All of these apply to prison incarceration numbers

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actually, we personally and specifically were talking about rights and opportunities as shaped by social status which is undoubtedly shaped by race

if you don’t think that ivanka trump has more opportunity and a much easier path to starting her own fashion line on a worldwide scale without having any particular knowledge other than that her father who is who he is and has the connections and or access to capital vs all the hoops that somebody else would have to jump through, which is amplified the lower you go down the social and thus racial scale your being dishonest air. not because i say so but because the example speaks for itself.

the fact that barack obama became president doesn’t mean that racism doesn’t still exist either. if you think his path to the WH was as easy as as a clinton or trump and that probably 10 years earlier it would have been possible you’re being dishonest. if you want to look at the details, his mother was white and he spent his youth outside the 48 in HA as well as indonesia. based upon being in those places, they’re much different than the continental usa. things are getting better but to brush this off as equal opportunity is absolute bullshit.

our discussion was about opportunity. equal opportunity. you think that because absolute opportunity exists in a vacuume that means it’s equal for all. it’s not

any kid that doesn’t start in a good school system through no choice of their own is not going to get the same educational development. which means when it comes time to take entrance exams your likely to be more at a disadvantage. your more likely to drop out of school, etc. there’s often more violence in the area etc.

since i have no idea what you’re talking about, i have no knowledge of it. i just looked up stg quick online but i’m not sure you want to use it as an example.

the problem with racism and a lot of the logic that is being used to divide people today is that it’s based on this use of skewed examples of false equivalence. today, if someone provides one example ( often half-baked or rooted in conspiracy theory) it’s all the ammunition people seem to think they need to justify equivalence when the other 99% of evidence contradicts the truth.

if you say that opportunity exists for all well i can’t really say it doesn’t. but it isn’t equal. so it’s an empty statement used by people that don’t want to address the specifics of the matter. the devil is in the details.

that’s not how i see it at all… that’s how you would like to portray it but it’s not what i’ve been saying over and over again because you’re not listening.

I also see it as a social problem for the poor BUT which statistics also clearly tie to race. it’s unequal. so the opportunity is not equal.

stop! if you thought the opportunity was equal you’d drive your kids to the poor school vs the one you worked hard to put your own in. you wouldn’t do that in a 1000 years and you know it. why? because your kids would suffer and you’d probably be afraid to drive them there every day.

already explained above.

i’ll add that since that last black president was elected, i’m still reading racist things by people all the time including on this forum. on top of it, the new president is prone to saying racist things and encouraging racial division.

sorry my friend, that is not what i’m saying even though you want people to believe it so.

finally… now you’re back on where we started! :wink:
But…
no we don’t :slight_smile:

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I’m sorry but your argument is flawed.

Let’s use your Ivanka argument.

Ivanka comes from wealth. There are black people in her position who come from wealth as well.

Would it be a race problem if I argue Sasha Obama has more opportunities than a poor white farm boy? White farm boys are being oppressed because Sasha Obama has more opportunities? Do you see how silly this argument is.

I have two people a white boy from the Bronx and a Black boy from the Bronx. Both poor, both have no father. Both are in a gang. Does the white boy have more opportunities than the black boy? Of course not!

What your arguing isn’t about race. It’s about wealth. It’s not a race problem. It’s a social problem.

Just like the George Floyd Argument you made. There’s no evidence that it was racially motivated.

A black man being shot is no bigger a race problem than a Hispanic or white man being shot.

Just recently in Houston a Hispanic boy was on his knees and gunned down when he reached towards his chest to remove the taser wire. No riots, no media outcry!

My point is that this happens far to frequently. It’s not a problem only to blacks. It happens to all races but we never see the media outcry for these other races. Why is that?

You see racial problem. I see social problems. Racial problems will never cease to exists when people continue to apply race where it doesn’t belong.

That’s my point. I’m sorry you can’t see that. I hope you understand my intentions are pure here.

I think we as a society can’t heal until we learn to remove the emotion and stop applying race to every problem.

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My best friend is black…same age as me and we work the same job. He and I always talk about that we could commit the same exact crime and not only s he three times more likely to get convicted and sentenced than I am…he will certainly get more years in prison than me. And this is all things being equal, such as attorney representation, the judge and prosecutor we face and the jury that will judge us. The judicial system isn’t and never had been fair in that regard. People will say little nuances such as how much you can afford for a lawyer…but that is part of systemic racism and class placement. The law is the law…a crime committed is a crime committed and if two people commit the same crime they should get the same punishment period!

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I think there’s a blind spot for some here about how change happens. For decades here I’ve read the opinions of conservative white dudes saying, basically, there is no real problem. I don’t think this is usually anything that can be called racism per se, IMO it’s just like I said, a blind spot. They can’t have the black experience, and of course there’s no shortage of bad apples in group just as there are many in any other race, but people don’t fight for fun. They fight for justice and fairness. And the only way blacks have gotten any traction on change is through fighting for it. Here we are, still.

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I disagree there is race problem

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My wife is Hispanic. I’ve seen racism and discrimination on multiple occasion–sometimes subtle stuff, sometimes not.

Example one: Took my car into a dealership to have it serviced. The dealership employee treated me like I was his best friend. My wife took our other car, a nearly brand new Limited upscale vehicle, with children in tow to same dealership and was waited on by the same guy. Same employee treated her like sh*t. We took our business elsewhere after that.

Example two: My one son got the Eastern European genes-. My wife has been questioned whether she’s the nanny, caregiver, or even the parent. It’s happened many times in different settings–doctor’s appointments, museums, children’s playgrounds, and more.

Example three: Go to a restaurant in Omaha, Nebraska. Order Lasagna. Young male Caucasian waiter asks if I want hot sauce for my Lasagna. I was like, who the heck puts hot sauce on Lasagna? (There’s a common misconception that all Hispanics like hot sauce and spicy food, but for people from South America, that’s not a common preference).

Example four: hostility over the phone due to my wife’s accent, then I get on the phone and the tone changes entirely.

Granted, these are minor annoyances, but racism and discrimination are still out there even if they only take subtle forms.

2 Likes
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The question is, are you willing to listen to people who say their experience begs to differ? This is exactly the problem.

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That’s true.

I look to a day when people will not be judged by the color of their skin, but by the content of their character.

Martin Luther King, Jr.

If only that were true, the world would be a lot better place.

Instead, we’re living in a sh*t storm of racial divisiveness.

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Lol. I never said there wasn’t people who are. But we did elect a black president. So maybe you just listen to CNN and read Yahoo articles.

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I was married to a Latin woman, and experienced a lot of the same back in Canada. Where I am now, when I’ve dated Latin women, I’m in a different cultural milieu. But if I’m with an attractive, younger Latina, people assume I’m a sugar daddy. Pisses both of us, moreso the woman who gets frowned upon as probably a hooker.

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In which direction?

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Verdad.

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C’mon man. I know this won’t impress you, as it shouldn’t on its face, but I studied both media and political science in university. I was a reporter for my hometown newspaper for a while. Now I write internet content for a living. I could do proper content analyses, both from a qualitative and quantitative perspective, on all forms of media. I can respect your own opinion on media bias, but I’m no babe in the woods on that score.