Finish Building This Defense

The War Room Detroit Lions — The Den
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It is clear what Dan wants to do at this point:
Coach a tough team that CAN run, that can take shots and can play defense. Tough, hard-nosed defense.

This team was in trouble on defense in . In the first 8 games of the season allowed UNDER 20 points twice. They averaged allowing 30.5 points per game. You cannot win in the NFL allowing over 30 points a game. These past four games however the Lions have allowed on average 18 points per game. And they are 1-2-1 in that stretch. The Lions played in two sloppy field conditions and against teams struggling on O OR missing key players. But so what. The Lions did what Campbell needed them to do which was give the team a shot to win.

Aaron Glenn looks like the real deal and Dan Campbell seems to know how to work with Glenn during the course of a game (timeouts aside!).

If this team can get Romeo Okwara back and see what we have in Okudah (hell, maybe just a back up safety but we need that too!) then concentrate on building a young and talented defense this team has a shot regardless of Goff. We can likely sign a real #1 WR in 2022 in free agency and I think we can use great WR depth to look at that in rd. 3.

To me, unlike WR and maybe CB…it can be hard to get a solid defender in free agency. Teams don’t let talented young players walk often without trading them.

I assume Flowers is gone and that we likely grab a top pass rusher this offseason in the draft.

In short I add a DE (Hutch or Thib. for my $.), LBer (Lloyd of Dean) and Safety with the top 3 picks in this draft and I try to field a team that can stop teams from scoring. I lock down Tracy Walker and I likey look to extend Amani O. at CB too as he is becoming a rally solid player for us and he is just 26 this February and he isn’t going anywhere if our GM is smart. It looks like WR is crazy deep again and that could be a great WR value spot.

Is that enough? Can that be the start of a special defense here? Is it okay to lean on Goff, a free agent WR or does that leave the OL and weapons too vulnerable?

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They’d be crucified if they ignore WR again, but I’d go w/ BPA…if that’s D over WR do it. We just have too many needs

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Our current d-fence…

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I hear that about WR. That is why I think we target a top free agent WR like Chris Godwin for example. Give me Chris Godwin, Josh Reynolds, Amon Ra, Cephus and a 3rd rd. rookie WR and that could be a very solid position group.

I hope we lock down Jalen Reeves Maybin as key depth/fringe starter, draft a LBer early and bring back Alex A. (who is really a back up in terms of talent) to work with Barnes. That still leaves me wanting more but it is a start and would be better than 2021.

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That might be a good group compared to what we have now…but it’s still not a real NFL WR group.
I think our WR group being so bad has lowered our expectations of what a real WR group should be.
Josh Reynolds is a #4 WR and that’s about what he should be here.

Hutch
Devin Lloyd or Burks
and then a WR or LB depending on what we take with that Rams pick.

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I was actually astounded by the way Chris Collingsworth talked about how he had been watching film on the Lions over the last few weeks and how thought they are…he was like “man that is a tough team”

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Lions are mighty thin at DT…No Williams after 2021, Hand, Strong. They will likely retain Brockers for his tutoring and locker room abilities, for whatever that’s worth, for 1 more season.He’s been a major disappointment on the field. They will likely acquire a DT, either through FA or the 2022 Draft.

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I agree about Brockers its possible he could be traded or released but likely kept for another season.
I think hector has a shot at DL next season they have protected him every week an he played last week.
I tend to agree about d an really on O we only need to improve WR. I am not sure about Godwin depends on cost.

Couple things I think once we get this team built up is every draft you draft a CB an a WR those to positions are very pricey an its nice to have them moving through system as cheap adds.

We have been lucky this year we have found IMO at least 3 CBs who can play at NFL level starter s not sure but sound backups.
Parker…Price…Jacobs…all 3 UDFA an you add Iffi are Draft pick along with couple we claimed Ballentine …Gilbert an then add AO an Okudah Thats a nice young corp coming back to camp Thats 8 who have gain experience an young an cheap.

I hope some have seen the play of Josh Woods the LB we got from Bears PS he has played on ST most of season but had chance to start sunday had a good day. Rotated with Barnes due to JRM being injured.
This team is young an learning an most games not a easy win.

You add Cephus who was having good year till hurt an St Brown who has come along with Reynolds thats 3 i like making WR corp an adding a draft pick early an yes a UFA but doesn’t have to be super price guy just steady with some speed.
Lets say you add a Burk or Wilson to those 3 an another later its looking better already without a UFA signing.

The building blocks are learning an are young. Penisini has improved this season over last. I Like are two main DL pluggers.

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I wouldn’t say this defense will be finished being made this offseason. It will be a lot better but it won’t be finished.

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I don’t understand the stance of “finishing” the D first. Imo, the offense has so many more finished positions than the defense. If we add a #1 & #2 WRs this offseason (1 via FA and draft with 1B or 2nd) this offense is complete. I wouldn’t call a single position on defense complete. It’s not possible to fix the D in one offseason.

But it is possible to complete the offense. Aside from Goff anyway…

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Personally, I think the defense is very mediocre. Good news is it’s improving. There are a lot of very young players and they are getting valuable experience.

The backfield is playing some decent coverage but they aren’t ball hawking or creating turnovers aside from AO.

Linebackers try hard but are too slow horizontally and in coverage.

DL gets decent push but almost never gets penetration allowing good QBs way too much time.

I think the DL is still ~6 guys away from a top defense, 2 at each level starting with a DE like Hutch, then LB, then SAF.

Offense needs 2 good WRs and another guard.

What’s helped this defense keep the points lower is that they keep everything in front allowing long clock killing drives. Offense does the same by running a lot. That shortens the games and DC wants to try and win a short, low scoring game rather that push hard and risk getting blown out.

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I like this point JDrik and I want to address it.

To me it is clear Campbell wants to have a defense that can cover his gambles and his conservative calls. He wants a defense he can rely on. Dan Campbell ISN’T McVay. Dan doesn’t seem happy to be a “score more than them” guy. He seems to be a “keep 'em from scoring first” guy. He seems to want a defense that makes life miserable for the other team.

The defense is already being built. In 2020 we drafted an OT, a DT, a DT, a CB, WR, LBer (Barnes) and a RB in rd. 7. I see that as 4 out of 6 picks and a RB value pick in rd. 7 where you want a guy who has a shot at sticking. We had a 1st, a 2nd, 2 3rds and 2 4ths and of those picks 4 went to defense.

Levi Onwuzurike, Alim McNeill, Ifeatu Melifonwu and Barnes with an OT and WR. This club also locked down Romeo Okwara and signed then extended Michael Brockers.

If we add a DE, LBer and a secondary piece early that is a lot of talent to infuse into the defense and that should be close to getting Dan Campbell what he wants on defense: a club that can win in a street fight.

Dan needs a defense that can cover his gambles. I don’t think Dan is a guy who can help this club win in a game with over 80 total points scored for example. Dan wants to run the football, take his shots when they are there, gamble when the odds are in his favor and plat great team defense. We need more pieces before this club can be even close to good on defense. But if we get Okwara back and Okudah back and we add Hutch/Thibs., a killer LBer and a solid safety in rd. 2 (as well as locking down Tracy Walker) this club has a shot at being good at defense for the first time since that flash in the pan in 2014.

AND…we are building off what Holmes already started with 2 DTs in 2021. Adding a killer LBer and solid strong safety builds thus defense the right way:
Strength up the middle with solid edge options in Thibs./Hutch, Romeo Okwara, Charles Harris and maybe Julian Okwara. The draft value looks like it will line up this way too.

Yes the offense has needs but we have Swift/Williams/Jefferson back, Goff is locked down (for better or worse), Hock will be back and the OL looks pretty darn good too. Add a top free agent WR and a 3rd WR as well as Amon Ra and Cephus (and maybe Josh Reynolds) and that is serviceable. Say we sign Chris Godwin with Cephus/Josh Reynolds as the #2. Amon Ra as the slot guy with Cephus/Reynolds as the #4. AND say we add a WR who falls to the top of rd. 3…say a Justin Ross falls that far as the 9th WR off the board? (https://www.cbssports.com/nfl/draft/prospect-rankings/wide-receivers/wide-receivers). There will be other GREAT WR options likely at the top of rd. 3 too. That is better than 2021 if we add a top free agent AND a early 3rd rd. pick at WR.

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I’ll add… If Holmes adds a credible FA WR, and drafts a credible WR in early rounds… I think Goff will look a lot better than we’ve seen this year.

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I just saw Sporting News has Devin Lloyd rated as their #7 prospect now… so he may be long gone before the Rams pick.

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That very well might be where that guy goes. CBS has four LBers in the top 35 or so:

The Rams pick looks like LBer, WR and CB will be solid value options at that point. If we are good with Goff for 2022 I would love to get a good LBer with the Rams pick.

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So you are saying we need 2 WRs too. That’s all I was saying…

And I’m pretty sure this is an era where if you don’t score, you can’t win. Game changing, dominating defenses don’t exist anymore. Not throughout an entire season anyway. If we had a WR1/2 this season, we may be around the .500 mark, who knows…

Campbell better hire a McVay type of mind to run his offense. DC might be a old school type of guy. One that is likable and inspiring. But if he doesn’t hire a guy who can put points on the board, that’ll get him fired in a few years. You are not a contender in the NFL if you can’t score points :man_shrugging:t2:

My entire stance was questioning the finish the D first. That’s implying ignore offense and “finish the D.” When we are only 2 WRs away from having basically zero holes on offense. So the finish the D stance is a head scratcher view for me.

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I’m in favor of a defense heavy draft. Defense wins, plain and simple. Get a strong pass rush, add some depth, shore up the line backing corps. Build a smothering defense that other teams not only hate to Line up against, but fear lining up against. One that’s not only smothering, but one that can take the ball away and compete with their own offense on points scored.

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Who is that defense now?

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This is no longer true, it’s a dated axiom that needs to be put to bed. It’s possible to have an elite defense for one year, and then that defense will fall apart. Broncos, Seahawks, Jags, Bears all had elite, #1 ranked defenses over the past decade, and all were a shell of themselves within 2 years. Injuries/FA loss/general attrition hits defenses far harder than offenses (except the RB position). It’s much easier to have a good offense year over year (KC, GB, TB, Ariz, NO, LAR) than a good defense.

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You need everything - good running game, good defense, good passing game, and some luck - to win big in the NFL, with preferably one or two of those things being elite.

This team is so far away from any one of those things being good (let alone great), that it’s going to be tough to overlook any talent that falls in the draft. Other than a couple of positions, the draft and free agency can focus on just bringing an influx of talent to this team.

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