Goff was a superior prospect. No doubting that.
But so was Jeff George.
Joe Montana was a middling prospect. Nick Foles has a super bowl ring.
You never know when it could click for a guy.
While I’m 100% against taking Willis at 2, getting another qb high in the draft as insurance in case Goff is more front half of ‘21 then back half, and having a jump start on ‘23 could be a very wise decision.
And I’m not so certain there’s any one player around 32-34 that’s going to turn this team around.
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Here’s a fact - Fans are obsessed with QB’s.
They are so obsessed that if we had Peyton Manning in his prime, we’d be wondering how to get Brady, obsessing over the backup, and wondering if we should be drafting one to groom for the future.
There’s 21 other starters, but people fixate on QB’s. It could be the greatest defensive draft in history and a collection of Uncle Rico QB’s and people would still be interested.
Chalk it up to human nature.
Personally, I’d rather have a marginal QB and a Super Bowl to celebrate than a statistically great individual with a slew of 1st round playoff exits, but to each their own. I’m sure Brad Johnson’s Super Bowl ring as the Buccaneers starting QB is just as pretty as Aaron Rodgers singular ring…
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Is Uncle Rico available. Any highlight film available. It may be time to kick his tires.
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Comparing Goff to J George is to prove a point is silly.
Goff isn’t J Russell, J George, J Winston, B Bortles, and he’s definitely not Joe Montana either.
He’s a lot like M Ryan, K Cousins, etc…and I’m sure someone will take exception to that, but take a look at Ryan’s last 5 years…. Lots of 26 td 10-14 int type seasons as his supporting cast has eroded.
Rams D went #12, #20, #18 from 17-19’…. They finished #1 in 2020.
Rams OL finished #6, #6, #31 from 2017-2019…their OL finished #3 in 2020…
With Goff at QB they won 11, 13, 9 and 10 games…. That’s 43 games in 4 years. GOFF HAD THE 2ND MOST NFL WINS FROM 17-20’….
He went to a SB, 2 pro bowls and was an MVP finalist in his first FULL 4 years in the league…
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No team has ever won a super bowl by not taling risks on players. Specifically in the draft.
The Lions have tried ever since they traded Bobby Layne to have a bunch of nice, non-risky guys.
How’s that gone for them?
Taking risks?
It is HIGHLY HIGHLY unlikely that any of the top 4-5 QBs in this class have a career comparable to what Goff has done.
He finished his last 6 games .500 with a SHIT roster. Both sides of the ball. He finished with 11 tds and 2 ints.
He was a #1 overall pick who was in a Pro Bowl by year 2, and an MVP race and SB in year 3…
Each year from 17-20 the talent around him regressed.
He was the 2nd winningest QB in the NFL from 17-20
What are we talking about.
Your man crush on running QBs and guys who went to OSU clouds your judgement.
-The Jags have a bottom 5 defense, and now an overpaid mismatched offensive cast.
-The Bears are a literal dumpster fire, and have minimal resources to put a cast around Fields
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Mac Jones had a nice rookie year on a playoff ready team, but teams seemed to be figuring him out the last 5 games. We will see in 2022, but I wouldn’t be shocked to see a 7-10 Patriots team this year.
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Z Wilson finished better than he started, and the Jets do have the resources to build around him this year, if they do just that, he may pan out.
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T Lance- who knows. They are replacing a QB who was in a SB with a chance to win just 3 years ago, and one or 2 plays from the SB again this year.
The 49ers just had to restructure Kittles and Armstrad
To get under that cap, so if they regress at all in 2022 with a first year starter, then their window will likely be closed before Lance really has a shot.
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It was 10x as unlikely that Brady would ever win 7 Super Bowls.
So were a lot of sucky guys.
DJ Chark made a pro bowl too, so why aren’t you telling us about how great he is? Stafford has also made only 1 pro bowl, and he is way better than Goff. Pro Bowls are a horrible stat to think correlates to success.
You think Goff is great. I have no issue with that. I just disagree with it.
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Something not talked about enough is the perception created through the Lions-Rams trade.
On paper, Stafford for Goff + 2 Firsts made Stafford look far superior to Goff. Personally, at the time, I felt like we got a steal considering the draft capital added and the state of the team. Then, of course the Lions go on to win 3 games and the Rams win the Super Bowl. Natural deductive reasoning tells us that Goff is horrible and Stafford is amazing. I just think we are polarizing this much more than necessary. Goff had very few weapons on a brand new team, system, city - with a habitually terrible organization. Stafford was put into the best situation possible with outstanding offensive weapons, and a legitimate nightmare of a defense. Also, a lot has to go right in terms of luck to win the SB, which it did.
In reality, I believe the gap between the two is less than we perceive it to be. I also believe Goff is still developing and more than capable of being a top 12-15 QB which is plenty good for now.
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your right this ties in to with my comment about WE do not know how…good…Goff…is…here…, he’s not had a completely , functioning, productive, team HERE …yet. so you Joe fans can’t sit back and say “Gawd what a crumb bum Goff is, he does this and this and that and only won three games .” yeah he did with a partial team/ not completely built in the vision of THIS staff !
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It is highly unlikely that ANY rookie QB does what Goff has done. QBs flow at an extremely high rate. Fans that are clamoring for “replace Stafford,” draft a rook high, etc every year are out of thier minds. It’s extremely difficult to get a good one, and it’s always a risk.
I think the gap is huge.
Completely agree with this. 100%
Partly disagree. When and how do you upgrade? Of the 32 teams, all but 5, or so are scrambling for a top flight QB. I feel like we will be winning just enough games to put us into purgatory…Groundhog Day of being a 2nd tier playoff team that basically gets out of the wildcard game every year. That’s what I think you get with goff.
Goff is an asset, for sure. Either we’ll roll with him or get something valuable in return. Goff can do well when surrounded by amazing talent (he’s proven that).
I am rooting for Goff to rip the lid off a can of whoopass! I want him to do amazing so we can trade him or Willis, whichever is the lesser of the 2.
Going into next season with “our guy”…AND extra beanz, probably first rounders.
IMO? 2023 is when Goff REALLY has to show, 2022 to…but I don’t think we will finish building this offseason. If Goff can’t get more than 5 wins with a better team this season, he’s not for us and will be replaced by 2023.
I never thought much of Goff when he was a Ram. Thought he was a bad choice at 1OA. I was surprised when they extended him. They got to the Super Bowl, but he didn’t drive that team.
Then, last year he became our QB. I decided to take a wait and see approach. I’ve said before, Goff was like a frequently dumped, insecure girl you meet — damaged goods. He certainly performed like damaged goods, making poor decisions and lacking trust in his receivers.
Turned out Goff had legitimate reasons to lack trust in his receivers. Turns out his OC wasn’t giving him the TLC he needed to get over his past.
MCDC gave him that love and made sure Goffs receivers ran routes as expected. They were able add a receiver Goff trusted (good fortune).
Suddenly Goff performed better.
My view today is that Johnson and MCDC will continue to give him the love he needs to nurture the guy back. His growth had been stunted by McVey. With continued support he has a chance to get back to where he was, and to continue to develop.
I see no reason he can’t get to a top 10-15 QB with continued nurturing. There’s no question that he hasn’t fully blossomed yet. I think rather than the foregone conclusion 80% of us have had that he’s a bridge QB, he may just become a reasonable franchise QB for us. Maybe the second best after Stafford in the last 50 years of this sorry franchise.
So, I say, let the man grow. Let Johnson and MCDC nurture that growth. He may yet surprise us.
Kind of like that insecure, too often dumped girl that just needed someone to nurture her.
These things happen.
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What? Going into this next season, I doubt the Chiefs, Bucs, Rams, Bills, Chargers, Packers, Ravens, Cowboys, Cardinals, Browns (now), Broncos (now), Raiders, Vikings, Colts (now), Titans, etc feel like they’re in scramble mode for a top QB. Several more have young QB’s that they are willing to wait out and watch develop (Jags, Jets, Bears). Truthfully, I don’t believe the Lions even feel like they’re in scramble mode to upgrade QB. Everyone in an NFL FO knows how rare elite QB’s are to come by. That doesn’t mean you just keep slinging quality draft picks and spending money, hoping one sticks. That’s how you crumble the foundation a good signal-caller needs to win. The situation needs to be right. Very rarely do rookie/young QB’s come into bad situations and succeed.
For instance, name a QB from - as mentioned above: (Chiefs, Bucs, Rams, Bills, Chargers, Packers, Ravens, Cowboys, Cardinals) that came into a bad position. All of those teams, for the most part, had the right pieces in place to support a young, developing QB. The Lions staff knows this, which is why Goff is plenty serviceable for now. When the pillars of this foundation are sturdy enough, then go get your QB if that’s what’s missing from a SB contending lineup. This includes the necessary culture and winning attitude.
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Guaranteed. I think he’ll hit that range of top 12-15 QBs. Juuuust “good” enough to cause a shitload of controversy.
Borderline franchise QB, but not quite there. Too weak-minded.
I’m open to him surprising us, but it would be a surprise to me. 
Yeah I mean he was given career backup receivers plus a 4th round rookie to throw to, in a new system, with no familiarity. How quickly is chemistry and trust built? You’re right though, let’s give this man some weapons, confidence, and more playing time in this system before we pass a fair judgement. He was like top 5 in passer rating down the stretch. He’s also only 27 years old which makes him still an infant in terms of NFL quarterbacks. Hell, Josh Allen turns 26 in May and he is still learning. Many think he’s just scratching the surface on his ability, which is scary lol
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Is that what you feel my opinion is? Sheesh, bro. Sort of funny, but also kinda not.
Word
Completely agree with this - not sure as to the relevance of this in this conversation.
Agree…what’s your counterpoint?
Agree
Offense is good enough to support a rook, with addition of Chark, a rook WR, and a healthy OL…our O is already there.
Rook sits behind Goff (serviceable guy ) for a year. Rookie succeeding doesn’t mean just winning games. If he’s doing his job well and building his confidence, that’s great. The Defense may take a couple of years to get 100% right…the offense is damn near there.
This post feels like this to me…
I agree with 90+% of what you are saying, but it’s still perceived conflict.
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Lol I don’t think we are in disagreement at all, I’m probably just more willing to wait to bring in a QB at all, until the time is right. Whether that’s through trade or paying up in a draft to get the franchise guy. A true stud, in my opinion, doesn’t need to sit behind anyone - if the offense, culture, and coaching staff is superb.
I’m ok with taking a guy in the mid to later rounds, but I’m definitely not taking the risk of a Willis or Pickett with a high draft pick. I’ll let them turn into Pro-Bowlers on another team, because even if they hit, our team isn’t prepared to nurture them. But there’s a reason most experts have them as mid-late 1sts at best. They’ll get drafted sooner than they should due to positional value alone.
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This is where we disagree. I think we are in perfect position to nurture them.
-Sit behind Goff for a year
-Amazing OL
-SuperRookie, SunGod, Chark, Cepheus, Reynolds …that’s just this offseason, keep in mind, if he sits behind Goff for a year, it will be even better with an extra year of coaching and experience for the young dudes
-Draft depth at TE?
-One more RB (likely next year, not this)?
…IMO, that looks like a damn fine scenario for a rook to step into.
If you are counting on Defense as a support system for a rookie, I just dont’ view it that way. He can develop timing, judgement, ability to read, instinct, playbook knowledge, etc…even if we are losing, the rookie is still growing and succeeding.
Our offense is almost there…and…IMO…there, by the time the rook steps on the field.
Truthfully, I think we’re gonna end up w/Thibz, even though I hope not.
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