This is what I was trying to get at with my initial post, so thanks for capturing it.
@NYLion59 brought up the Stafford comparison, so let’s use that: If any other QB not named Brady or Rodgers is quarterback of the Rams at Tampa Bay last year, they lose that game. Stafford did everything asked of him. He ran the offense to perfection. But silly turnovers that weren’t his fault, and a defense that collapsed, put a trip to the NFC championship on his shoulders against the Goat. He responded with a legendary throw. I’m not even sure Kupp was a literal target on that play.
Goff doesn’t make that throw. Or the no-looker in the Super Bowl. Which is OK. Few do. But suggesting that he could’ve made that throw and we can’t have a conversation. So no, as much as I’ve enjoyed the last few games, let’s not compare those two.
Back to Ted’s point: what is the value of a QB who occasionally needs to go off-script and remain successful? It depends A LOT on the team around you. But the Rams were LOADED last year, and still fell apart in critical moments, requiring Stafford’s off-script heroics. So there WILL be moments when the Lions fall apart, and that’s where a game-changing QB comes in handy.
Which is why, IMO, QBs like Josh Allen or Stafford or Rodgers or Burrow or Mahomes are still necessary. You might not find it on the stat sheet, but you sure as hell will see it in the highlight reels.
I haven’t seen that in Goff. Is it lingering in there? Maybe. He made a gutsy throw against Minnesota last year at home. It was an eyebrow raising moment for me, but we still need to see a bit more. That’s all I’m saying.
I don’t disagree with Stafford’s ability to make the “off platform” throws that Goff simply can’t execute but I was talking more in terms of career trajectory from draft pedigree to career trends through their first 7 seasons, there’s a lot of similarities. If we’re talking skillsets, I think Goff is more accurate on the intermediate throws which works in an offense like this that emphasizes the intermediate passing game so he does things better than Stafford also.
I’m not saying that Goff is as good as Stafford (Stafford has a dynamic in his game that Goff just doesn’t have), but I think he’s a lot more comparable to him than the two guys you mentioned in Mitchell and Keenum in terms of career trajectory.
I also think this is an offense that caters to Goff’s strengths moreso than most in the league so I think it’s a good fit schematically. It doesn’t mean that I’m completely sold on Goff, I do share some of the concerns that you do, but I do think he’s better than most give him credit for and can be a solution on a good team.
People should remember that The Lions had Goff develop this offense with Ben Johnson. Remember too that Goff led the 12th best offense of all time. It seems some think Goff is always just along for the ride. Maybe he’s actually a talented QB responsible for his own success
“ Johnson, in his first year as an NFL coordinator, is going to allow Goff to have a major say in the type of offense that the Lions run in 2022. And, it’s something that the former Los Angeles Rams quarterback appreciates, going into his seventh season in the league.
"…I think the most exciting part for me was the influence he was allowing me to have, asking me and (being) really curious on what I thought and what I liked – genuinely curious, because it’s now a part of what we’re doing. So, I know it wasn’t fake…”
This is a bit forgotten on the ben johnson head coach train… goff having a big say in this offense means if/when ben leaves goff should still have a say in the offense that stays behind as long as dan campbell is smart about it. The offense should be fine with say burnell as the next o cord… or staley or whoever.
And all of that can be true, while still not being enough in today’s league.
The Keenum/Mitchell pushback is fair. Maybe Cousins is a better comparison. Kirk Cousins might always do enough to make the Vikings look interesting. But if you ask most Minny fans, they don’t believe he has the ‘it’ factor to go off-script and make a dynamic play when things fall apart or that extra bit of DNA that separates a “solid” player from a spectacular playmaker. And in today’s parity, sometimes that is the difference.
The #1 overall pick… the guy the geniuses Snead and Holmes traded up for….merely a passenger on the near record offense.
Being one of the youngest QBs to ever start in the SB…. Merely happenstance.
The genius McVay and cap guru Snead giving Goff a record extension a full 2 years early couldn’t have been earned on film. 33 wins in 3 is normal for QBs 23-25….
Aha- proof Goff sucks- Stafford won the SB in year 1…. Forget scoring 60 less points while playing an extra game. Forget the hall of fame talent reload…
wait…. How is it that Matt Stafford and McVay fell so far so fast this year? It couldn’t be injuries depleting the team and bad personnel gambles?
…. I guess it’s lucky that the pro bowl QB who broke every record at Cal, and has won and produced everywhere he’s been….can once again give the credit to a guy who has never called plays in his life. Let’s even ignore the fact that he and Goff designed this together.
Funny that Stafford gets credit for Kupp having a career year in his prime, and with a record number of targets, but ASB was simply a gem. Goff gets not credit for Saint if he hits 1,500 yards next year. Lol
When you say “some”, you mean the LA Rams brass, including his head coach. You would think they would know. But hey who knows.
But at any rate, this will definitely be what Holmes and Campbell have to decide. Listen, if Campbell was all over Goff’s nuts he’d tell us. Or we’d know. LIke we know with Jamaal. I don’t really hear that from Campbell. But I could be misreading the room.
Lets be honest for a minute only reason Goff was traded is he hurt and disrepecred McVay when he said he wanted to.pipe Seans woman. Then Stafford went on vacation with him and the rest is history. If Stafford wasn’t available via trade Goff would still have been moved
lol. well something for sure soured that relationship beyond the play on the field. Word out of the locker room was that McVey would refuse to even talk to Goff. Short man complex - Have to give Goff kudos at least for always handling the situation with aplomb.
I think Goff is a better play action passer and with a legit run threat it unlocks a higher level of overall offense than a shotgun pass-heavy WCO. Stafford is a ■■■■ it and chuck it passer who has a stronger arm and can lead to highlight passes, but the overall offense is worse.
The flip side of all those comeback victories is you were losing at the time. I’d rather have a comfortable win for 200 Alex
Yup. Love it. Even without a gunslinger QB this offense is the most fun to watch in decades. As a fan I appreciate what Goff, Johnson and Campbell have done together
I think you are zeroing in here. An efficient game manager helps you win more games by getting the lead and keeping it. But can they come back?
I’ve long said that Goff is better than Dak and Cousins exactly because he rises to the occasion and plays his best when his best is required (later in the season/playoffs and against better teams).
Dak and Cousins are stat monsters when the weather is good and the defenses are bad. They shrink from what I’ve seen in bigger moments.
Goff doesn’t shrink in big moments, he rises. That said, he is more limited in what he is capable of when everything is crashing around him. If his balance is off or his body is getting knocked from behind, he’s more vulnerable than a mobile QB or guy that can throw from that mess (Stafford).
Stafford is simply more capable of working with less than Goff is. That is what it comes down to. It has little to do with offensive scheme. When Goff lost his running game and some of his WRs and OLine he wasn’t as effective. McVay didn’t have the option of going shotgun and riding Goff because Goff isn’t a franchise QB like Stafford is. McVay also didn’t have the option of giving Stafford a 2018 Rams run game or weapons. Which is why the trade was so lopsided. But hey, if you want to believe some song and dance about a comment he made be my guest. But I ain’t buyin it.
The winningest QB of all time is/was a game manager in Tom Brady. Tom isnt some special talent QB with an arm like Mahommes or even Stafford. Brady is all about being a cerebral assasin, with average/good arm/physical talent…not saying that Goff is Brady, but Jared looks more in that mold of a cerebral assasin game manager, which if mastered, can make a QB just as as good as any historically, and win lots of games and championships.