I think this is more about you giving Caldwell more credit than it’s probably warranted. The changes that the Ravens endured weren’t as big of a deal as you make them out to be. And if so you’d have to truly explain that. You are naming Offensive linemen but the changes that the Ravens made that year teams make every single year. The nagging injuries that the Ravens suffered teams suffer every year. Then after Caldwell left the Ravens Kubiak took over and the offense got much better
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I think this is about you giving Caldwell more blame than is probably warranted. Their six time pro bowl, all pro center left. Monroe and Oher had their worst seasons as tackles. That year Oher ranked as the 68th worst tackle out of 72 by PFF and ranked dead last as run blocker.
Birk who was a top five center was replaced by Gradkowsk who was ranked the worst center in the league
Ray Rice was hurt all year and had nowhere to run. The year before when they won the SB, Rice was one of the best RBs in the league, running through wide open lanes
Is it Caldwell’s fault the Oline was so bad that year? He was running the same power-run, play-action offense that he ran the year before when he had Birk at Center and McKinney at left tackle opening up huge holes for Ray Rice that helped open up the vertical passing game and rolled all the way to a Super Bowl victory
In fact the offense Caldwell put in when he became OC isn’t too dissimilar to what we run. It all started from the run game. Power off-tackle run plays opened up downfield single coverage for Flacco to go up top, from go-routes and double moves made on the outside of spread formations to deep posts executed in run-heavy looks.
Imagine us trying to run our offense if Raggs and Decker left and were replaced by two of the worst lineman in the league and Sewell suddenly tanked to be a bottom five RT
It’s not going to work. Blame Caldwell all you want. But that’s a simplistic way to look at it.
For me, I wouldn’t credit Caldwell entirely for the historic offense production and Super bowl victory in 2012 after he became OC
And I also wouldn’t blame him entirely for the offense regression in 2013
But I think he’s getting the Jared Goff treatment. He’s not credited hardly at all for the success and blamed nearly entirely for the failures
Again, all that you have listed is stuff that we see each year. Players declining play, injuries personnel changes. What is funny is how we pick and choose when to use such excuses and when to ignore them. Now I’m not blaming Caldwell for ANYTHING….but remember it’s me you are talking to and we have had this discussion. You wanted to credit him for leading Indianapolis’ offense the year they went to the Super Bowl. That is a perfect example of you giving him too much credit because anyone who watched those Indy teams led by Manning knows that Manning had his way with that offense and Tom Moore was the OC and had been long before Caldwell became HC. Just recently you called Caldwell an offensive guru….in which you will never be able to point out at any point of his career where he became a guru other then to point out a 4 game playoff run in which he took over the OC position in like week 13-14?? He was never a coordinator until he got to Baltimore and spent maybe a little over 20 weeks of his entire career as an OC 
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Oh yeah that’s right. We have had this discussion before.
Also no, teams don’t lose that much talent on the Oline ‘every year’ And the years they do……See Rams 2022
What I said was he went to a Super bowl as a head coach and won one as OC
Those are objectively true statements regardless how much you may not want them to be
Where did I call Caldwell ‘An offensive guru?’ I don’t believe I have said that.
If anything, I may have said he’s a ‘QB guru’. Hell Manning himself credits his work with Caldwell as one of the reasons he was such a technician.
That’s why the Lions hired him. To help fix Staffords sloppy mechanics - And he did help him quite a bit
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I think you’re being generous.
Throw a stone as a GM signing or drafting players and one can be bad at it and still come away with a handful of players
But a GM job is to build a team and hire a coach. Perhaps even hire admin team etc if the president doesn’t handle business end.
One of the female front office people credit BQ a lot with her opportunity and his support so I can think he might’ve added some good to lions
But it was his decision to hire Patricia
And that was so bad given when lions were under Caldwell
That it makes him a bad GM.
He had a Super Bowl QB and a hof WR
The olineman you mentioned
And his decisions still led to an under .500 team.
He got top draft spots and lower draft spots. He had a lot of draft capital and spent $250-$300 million in free agency.
I’m
Not saying he’s a bad man
But given what he inherited and the full control he assumed ( I assume he had ) … it falls at his feet and it’s more than just drafting Teez.
The Rams lost a lot more than OL talent. They lost their starting QB too (probably because of the OL)……but it certainly wasn’t most of the team they fielded in February of 2022. The Ravens didn’t have that many significant changes. I mean you keep mentioning Matt Birk….who was probably solid but he wasn’t a pro bowler at that time. Ray Rice did get off to a slow start because of injuries. But when you look at the numbers across the board they are not that much different than 2012 compared to 2013 plus the Ravens were still an 8 win team. So to not say Caldwell didn’t have a hand in the teams offensive regression I think is short sighted. I mean they had a full training camp with his coordination. Cam Cameron was fired on like 12-13-12….so I doubt much changed in the Ravens playbook or if Caldwell was even the play caller.
What you said is he led two offenses to Super Bowl wins, one as a coordinator and one as an HC and then I corrected you and said he did not win a Super Bowl as an HC and even in the SB loss he didn’t led that offense! 
you can try and delineate or be as pedantic as you want. But here’s my points. As a head coach, he was one of five rookie head coaches ever to lead his team to a Super Bowl.
Peyton Manning attributed the improvement of his mechanics and interception rate directly to working with Caldwell
He took over as coordinator of the ravens they went on a tear with the office he implemented and they won Super Bowl with him as coordinator
those are objective facts you can’t dispute
I also believe he helped Stafford considerably rain in his sloppy mechanics and improve his quarterback.
I also believe he was a good coach for us who had that team overachieving
I also believe that no coach or coordinator in the world is going to run a better offense if he has the worst greatest center in the entire league, the worst graded right tackle in the entire league and a bottom five left tackle.
that o line for the ravens that year was easily as bad or worse than the Rams 2022 oline. Especially since the offense, like ours, was designed to establish the run, and then use play action to throw from run looks.
I keep seeing this thread bubbling up. And wondering why!
I’ll take Campbell. Just for the in-game roller coaster he puts you on. Its fun as hell. Caldwell’s ride is the kiddie cars that go under 3 mph. Because you can’t be too safe.
Being a head coach is a completely different job description and skillset than being an offensive coordinator. One role is used as “the platform” to advance to the other. But Caldwell was never a coordinator before becoming a head coach. John Harbaugh was also never a coordinator. He was a special teams coach with a fake “DB coach” side title. Many people in the league will tell you that being a special teams coach has a more directly relatable skillset/experience than being a coordinator. But coordinator is still set up as the standard. Dan Campbell is a hugely successful head coach that didn’t spend a single day as coordinator to “prepare him” to be a head coach.
Caldwell was his QB coach. That’s what QB coaches are supposed to do. Caldwell was Mark Brunell, not Ben Johnson.
Caldwell didn’t “implement” an offense. He said publicly that everything about the offense was the same. He changed some personnel, made some different playcalls and empowered Flacco to adjust at the line of scrimmage like Peyton Manning. He took over a brewery near the end of its fiscal year and he handled the day by day operations in a successful manner. He deserves credit for that. What it takes to guide a brewery for a couple months is not what it takes to set one up and make it a success over time.
Yep, it was Caldwell’s MISSION to help Stafford sort that stuff out. Again, that is what a QB coach does. Caldwell has extensive experience as a successful QB coach. There is a reason why you didn’t say “Joe Lombardi cleaned up Matt Stafford’s mechanics.” He didn’t. Caldwell also made an immediate change to the diet and nutrition program for the Lions. Stafford was an immediate beneficiary of the improvements. Caldwell also brought “situational football” to Detroit. He wasn’t just saying it, you can tell by watching games. Caldwell was a good QB coach. Caldwell was a good head coach, even if people don’t give him credit. But being an offensive coordinator is a different skillset that didn’t suit Caldwell’s style.
As a head coach, not an offensive coordinator.
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Caldwell is an awesome man and a good coach
Campbell is light years ahead of him in everything other that fashion sense (hairstyle).
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Your last paragraph @Mr.Peabody did exactly that
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4-23 against teams over .500 with 2 additional losses in the playoffs.
He was also 32-5 (mostly thanks to Matt Stafford’s comebacks and Prater’s leg), against teams at or under .500.
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I probably am. But i think you’re also being too harsh.
I don’t agree with this. There’s a lot of fans, and media that thought it was bad to fire Caldwell. Because he’s had a winning record. But I agree 100% that Caldwell wasn’t the guy to put them over, and “9 wins isn’t good enough”. There is no way I can saying hiring MP was bad. We can now, but not then. He was the DC from the best franchise in football. They both came from the Patriots. It was a good match. There was no way anyone knew it would become a mess. It seemed like the right way to go. Of course, I’m talking at the time, and we all know it was a complete disaster.
It wasn’t until MP became coach that they went all patriots. He gave MP what he wanted. I didn’t think he was a bad GM. It was hit or miss with him. But in the end, yeah, he’s was a horrible GM. There’s no way around it.
Well he took over a floundering brewery and revamped the recipes, SOPs and tightened up COGs. and turned it around to make it brewery of the year
Jim Caldwell breathed new life into Baltimore Ravens' offense >
“…Caldwell definitely took Flacco’s strength as a player into account while crafting the past six game plans. He has made the deep ball the focal point of the passing game, designing a number of plays that enable Flacco to take shots down the field against one-on-one coverage on the perimeter. Caldwell has cleverly crafted plays that enable Flacco to go up top, from go-routes and double moves performed on the outside of spread formations to deep posts executed in run-heavy looks…”
“… Under Cameron, the Ravens rushed the ball just 25.7 times per game. Although that number placed the team right around the league average at the time (through 13 games), the lack of commitment to the ground attack prevented the Ravens from consistently staying on schedule. This has changed dramatically since Caldwell’s appointment as the offensive play caller. In the Ravens past six games (including the postseason), the team has averaged 35.7 rushing attempts for 155.3 yards per game….”
So again a fact:
Caldwell won a Super Bowl as an OC
When the Oline had Birk and McKinney it was performing top five and the offense was putting up 30 points a game
The next year losing Birk and McKinney and dropping to a bottom five unit the offense struggled
It’s not normal par for the course for a team to lose its veteran Pro Bowl center and left tackle in one offseason
What I’m saying all along is that Caldwell isn’t specifically to blame for the offensive futility 2013. He lost the horses up front. And if you are inclined to blame him then he deserves more credit to the offensive juggernaut that won the SB the year before.
No coordinator and no plan is going to be successful when your new center ranks worst in the league. Your RT ranks worst in the league your LT ranks bottom five and your workhorse RB is hurt
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I had finally forgotten about that… here comes the PTSD back…
Devils advocate says
Plenty of teams passed on hiring Patricia and the one that hired him
Was run by his buddy
Then when they hired Patricia, his background can help but it’s a comp of readiness amongst his peers
It’s Almost like BQ hired the worst of what was available
Given the success a coach that many felt was replaceable
Had with the same parts
Did bq really take the time to hire the best available ?
When he was hired
Lions fans argued about if it wasn’t the most attractive GM opening in football
I guess we’ll never know how things really played out and how deep the plot ran
That’s the way it goes. Every GM, and HC bring in their own guys. Not all head coach hirings had a line of owners/GM’s trying to get them. Look at Dan Campbell. Look at Caldwell.
Patricia, or McDaniels was always going to be the guy. That regime also preached culture change. Culture of hell…lol. They wanted the Patriots x’s 10. Sheila, and the rest loved Jim Caldwell, and made an agreement with BQ to give him a chance. But Caldwell failed, and then the dumpstar fire happened…lol.