LOL - I love this. Reminds me of Ricky Bobby…“with all due respect”
Wr’e all just a bunch of rabid fans. Fun stuff.
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Thus the “I am no expert” and “Ben was a TE coach and MC was a TE” comments. I trust them to see things from both the thousand foot level and the 1 foot level. I don’t trust me. I also don’t trust the commentator. I am sure he is a good guy. But I don’t take analysis seriously when it is done in a vacuum. If he described what else was going on during each play, what the play call and design was, and how each player handled his individual duties then I would take him more seriously. Sometimes those quick sideline outs are because it is all the defense is giving you. Sometimes a throw that looks off could be because the QB assumed the reciever was going to come back, continue or stop his route and he did not. I don’t know these things. Perhaps the commentator in the video knows. But if he does he could have given a much more detailed analysis. Just my personal opinion of course. I hope many people enjoyed it.
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Overall this season (so far) I see a TE that usually has a defender on his hip. The balls are thrown away from the defender. Yes, away from Hock as well. But away from being tipped up and possibly intercepted. Yes, I remember the pick 6.
If you watched the game last night, you saw Trubisky throw several balls that were deflected by tight coverage.
It looks to me Goff is trying to throw where his guy is going to get it or no one. It’s not pretty at times, but turnovers change momentum. The Lion offense is putting up points. They’d rather punt than have a turnover. They’d rather have an incomplete than a turnover.
How many of those throws are also influenced by the oncoming pass rush, you’d really have to break the tape down on and also look at throwing lanes. You know, the thing Blough never seemed to find. He always hit the Dlineman’s hands!
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Idk man. We can watch this in mute and probabaly come up with the same conclusions. I don’t think he presents himself as some expert. It’s just some all22 for us to look at.
Throwing to Hockenson 6 yards before the sticks on 1st down in double coverage with swift streaking up?
Throwing behind Hockenson multiple times forcing him to readjust and causing an incomplete?
Missing him wide open after he opens up the play with a awesome chip block? No reward for blocking and doing everything right is demoralizing.
This video actually helped change my mind a bit in hock. I have more compassion for him and forgot how bad things were last season. I didn’t realize the same problems were spilling over so badly this season
These are issues we saw under Lynn that were supposed to be corrected.
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On the first two plays cited…
Play 1) it’s a fucking drop. Period.
Play 2) where exactly is #90 of the defense? Wait, straight inline with where this person wants the ball thrown. The ball is thrown past 90 to the only spot that both, the ball and Hock’s hands can get to. Throw the ball where this guy want, it’s hitting 90 in the head or Goff has to put air under it and let’s the defender back into the play.
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Hock has to get the ball more cuz 67 yards isn’t going to cut it unless your a waterboy.
But I mean, we are averaging 28 points per game the last 8 games. I don’t think we need to blame anyone on offense, they are doing great. It’s not perfect, plenty of room to improve. Goff said exactly that in his press conference. We should have scored 50, he said and he’s right.
The defense is and remains my main concern.
I’d love to see Goff more accurate on deep balls, I’d love to see Hock play better. But, we gotta look at the team as a whole. Special teams and offense are far outplaying the defense so far.
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I see the same thing. I don’t mean to be one of those body language experts but everything from Hard Knocks to their huddles to post game celebrations (he looked very disinterested during the MCDC skip skip skip speech) looks like a player who just doesn’t seem to be buying in or is a little off mentally for whatever reason.
Who knows, I’m probably wrong but he just doesn’t seem like the more joyous Hock of yesteryear. Maybe not happy with not getting as many targets? Something personal? I don’t know, he just seems “off”.
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Yea, they are doing great, but the more the ball is spread on offense, the harder it is for defenses to shut it down. If they get Chark and TJ more involved, it’s that much tougher for defenses to stop the Lions.
Some of the problems are drops by TJ, but some are JG locking onto his safety nets and Ben not utilizing his full playbook (or Goff not trusting Ben). If Goff can get away from his safety nets, the offense will be even more explosive.
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At this point i dont think it matters what the reason is for the lack of production by Hockenson.
Let’s say it’s all of the above. The bottom line is if Hockenson, or the TE position overall, is not going to be a primary focus of this offense then investing large amounts of cap resources in the position would be foolish, whether it’s Hockenson or any other TE.
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100% agreed brother! You are watching the same games I am. Goff has been decent, he could be great if he hits those ones. The offense is rolling without Chark and Hock doing much. And Can’t wait for Jamo.
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So… I started watching this video… and within a few plays I noticed that the narrator has a narrative. He is only looking at the plays from a perspective of where players are positioned down the field… and doesn’t seem to realize he needs to look at the play from the QB’s lens.
The 1st play he shows… where they show 5 man rush (and rush 5 as well)… he was talking about throwing Hock a 5-yard out into cover-2… and the Commies weren’t even in cover-2 on the play.
it was a 5 man pass rush against a 5 man route… leaving a single high safety. Goff read that… and expected Swift to have his man cover him deep… and knew he needed to get the ball out quick… so he opted for the quick out. The DB that jumped the route did a heck of a job reading Goff planting his back leg… and drove on it.
In an ideal world… Goff pump fakes and hits Swift deep… but he probably would have been sacked instead.
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The play play he shows… the throw would certainly had been easier for Hock to catch if the ball was out in front of him. But… Goff had a potential broken thumb waiting for him (or a batted ball) if he went for that throw…
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Next play…… narrator is bitching that Goff throws to Swift instead of Hock… because he sees that Hock is “wide” open.
Cool story bro.
The problem with this guy’s anal-cyst…. is that Swift was the primary read on a designed clear out… and Swift was open wnough that the pass hit him in the hands… so Goff made the right read.
Tale a look at how there are 2 deep routes designed to create open field for Swift… and Hock’s route is a designed “rub” route meant to make the LB go “over” top to help Swift get open.
rub route…
ball hits Swift in hands…
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Open field was waiting for Swift…
Then… the 4th play.
The narrator fully admits Hock should have caught the ball.
His issue with the play was that Hock didn’t get to run a vertical route… and he mentions it is “2nd and 10”.
Thing is…… no Lion ran a vertical route… and it was a 1st and 10 play where they just wanted to get a short gain to stay ahead of the sticks. The narrator then laments that he doesn’t think Hock is “having fun” in this scheme…. which is ridiculous because why would a QB throw a guy a deeper pass he doesn’t catch the 3-yarder???
Next play… narrator blames Goff for Hock drop on a “ comeback route as he calls it… though it is technically a “stop” route.
But… look where Hock is on the hash when he stops… and then he drifts inside… even though the safety has inside leverage. Goff threw the ball where Hock was LESS likely to get blown up… even though the narrator repeatedly claimed the scheme was putting him in position to get hit.
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On the next play…. narrator again whines about “how Hock is being utilized”…. even though the play was designed to creat space for Hock on a clear out concept. As I showed above… the Lions did a similar thing to clear out for Swift… and the narrator whined because Hock didn’t get the pass (despite not being the intended target)… but now he complains simply because the play didn’t find success.
In the image below… it is obvious that the free rusher altered the passing lane… thus affecting the trajectory of the throw and even Hock’s route path…. and ruining the play.
But…. look at well the concept worked to creat YAC potential if it had not been impeded.
And… the real kicker… is that for all the bitching the dude does about Amon-Ra being the “darling” of the offense…
that play used ARSB in motion as the decoy to draw the eyes of defense away from Hock’s slip route!!!
Here is the view showing Hock being slowed as he tries to get out into his route…
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So… this dude tries to show a few plays to make a statement about how the scheme and Goff are holding Hock back…
and really just makes himself look like a jackass.
But… I could be wrong…. 
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Look at where the ball is in relation to the players below Hock (inbetween Hock and Goff). If that ball is inside, it’s deflected or picked.
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Thank you - this is what I was trying to say. Even though I could not do the analysis you did I felt it obvious he was doing a lazy job pushing his narrative. As I said - he may be a great guy - but I found his video to be lacking.
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Thanks Phunny for taking the time to do the screen grabs.
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I should have done this the 1st time…. but look at where his plant foot is at when he stops…. compared to the hash…
And…. then…. when he struggles to catch the throw which was heading right to his plant foot…. he is well inside of where he started…
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That is 100% on Hock for a bad route.
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The throw was late and behind him. That’s on Goff.
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Hock has played like a bench warmer rather than a pro bowler the last 2 games.
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Sorry… but the ball was half way to Hock while he was still standing on the has and hadn’t even fully turned his shoulders back to Goff…
so I can’t buy that the throw was late.
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I also don’t think it is a coincidence that Hock made a direct line to the hash mark at the top of his route… and am convinced he was supposed to simply stop and turn for the ball….
he started out well outside the hash…. and went straight to it…
and Goff started his throw as Hock was breaking down on the outside of the hash…. which is exactly where the thtow went.
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My buddy Marvin agrees!