I think its a legit query by Mel. Were rebuilding why give up picks and position. We need everyone we can get.
However, I don’t think that is how the Lions brass look at it. For them, getting the RIGHT players is more important than getting better/more players. Here, there was a huge hole at WR. There was a perceived drop off in talent before the draft, that turned out to be true, at 32 for WRs. They went up and got their guy.
It’s not legit. Look at this idiotic quote for one…
“Those are two early Round 2 picks that often become starters. Do Dan Campbell and Co. think they’re close enough to an NFC North title that they can take one chance on Day 1 instead of two at 32 and 34?”
He’s under the impression that they have up two early picks which is the first thing he got wrong then said that they gave up a pick on Day 1 which is also wrong.
They started with 2 and 32 and left with 2 and 12 on Day 1. They started with 2, 32 and 34 and ended up with 2,12 and 46 so 3 high picks still. Ok, 46 “technically” isn’t an early 2nd round pick but I think we can all agree that the difference between 12 and 32 is a good deal greater than the difference between 34 and 46.
All it took was for him to do a little research and he couldn’t even do that.
Mel also doesn’t factor in the lions were essentially playing with house money. They still had a 3rd round pick the league gave them. So what did it truly cost to get one of the best wideouts in the draft?
In the end, we may very well have gotten the best O and D players in the draft and still had a good haul after that. Who were the difference makers, game changers on the team, either side of the ball, before that? We have some really good players but no one carries the “difference maker” label and no team has had to game plan for us based on that forever.
Because this league has also shown there’s a difference between solid starters and impact players. Just look at the difference in the cardinals offense when Hopkins got hurt. They went from top 5 to very average.
Was this said on draft day before the actual trade details were released. I ask because I know for a little while there I thought we gave up all three picks to move up to 12 without getting a 2nd back.
I am not losing sleep or getting angry over his comments, regardless. No, Detroit is not close. But sometimes its better to go up and get your guy.
That’s possible because what he said makes no sense otherwise. He’s acting as if the trade was 12 for 32,34 and 66.
The Lions gave up almost nothing to get a potential superstar WR. Basically, just No. 66 overall–a 3rd Rd pick. It’s born out by an examination of Rd 2:
2 34 Green Bay Packers Christian Watson WR North Dakota State MVFC from Detroit via Minnesota[R2 - 2]
2 35 Tennessee Titans Roger McCreary CB Auburn SEC from N.Y. Jets[R2 - 3]
2 36 New York Jets Breece Hall RB Iowa State Big 12 from N.Y. Giants[R2 - 4]
2 37 Houston Texans Jalen Pitre S Baylor Big 12
2 38 Atlanta Falcons Arnold Ebiketie OLB Penn State Big Ten from Carolina via New York Jets and New York Giants[R2 - 5]
2 39 Chicago Bears Kyler Gordon CB Washington Pac-12
2 40 Seattle Seahawks Boye Mafe DE Minnesota Big Ten from Denver[R2 - 6]
2 41 Seattle Seahawks Kenneth Walker III RB Michigan State Big Ten 2021 Walter Camp Award and Doak Walker Award winner
2 42 Minnesota Vikings Andrew Booth Jr. CB Clemson ACC from Washington via Indianapolis[R2 - 7]
2 43 New York Giants Wan’Dale Robinson WR Kentucky SEC from Atlanta[R2 - 8]
2 44 Houston Texans John Metchie III WR Alabama SEC from Cleveland[R2 - 9]
2020 and 2021 Jon Cornish Trophy winner
2 45 Baltimore Ravens David Ojabo OLB Michigan Big Ten
2 46 Detroit Lions Josh Paschal DE Kentucky SEC from Minnesota[R2 - 10]
Lions got a WR with far better potential than anyone drafted at 34, 43 & 44
Lions didn’t need either RB drafted at 36 & 41. They made that investment in Swift in Rd 2 in 2020.
Lions didn’t need an undersized edge like Ebiketie taken at 38.
Lions perhaps could have used a CB, but it wasn’t a great need.
Pitre would’ve been nice, but Kerby Joseph was on par with him in the playmaking department.
Mafe & the seriously inured Ojabo ostensibly play the same position as Hutchinson–pass rusher off the right side of the defensive line and they’re nowhere near as good against the run as Paschal.
Who did the Lions miss out on by moving down from 34 to 46? Arguably, no one. In my opinion, the Lions lost literally nothing moving down from 34 to 46.
I made the same mistake when they announced the trade. The details I read never mentioned getting 46 back.
As far as the lions not being close. I’m not sure about that. We have a much much easier schedule this year. Two teams in our division aren’t much improved or have gotten worse. The offense has pieces to be pretty good. If the defense gets healthy and young players improve who knows what they’re capable of. They could approach league average.
This is true. You never know. I am just not putting money on it!
Oh god no! Never never bet on the lions!
What’s interesting to me is the potential of this defense. There are many if’s to feel good about it but the potential is there. Joseph is going to be a huge upgrade at safety paired with walker. Our defensive line is loaded with potential. Now we just have to see if potential equals production. The switch to a 4-3 should help our young defensive tackles as it plays more to their strengths. Okwara coming back adds another pass rusher if he’s close to the same player. A 4 man front should also protect our linebackers. They won’t be asked to take on the blocks they were in the 3-4. The corners are the biggest question. Too many coming off major injuries. You still have players that can start though. AO, iffy and Hughes are capable if okudah and Jacobs need more time. Plus Parker.
I was pretty down on the Lions prior to the draft but I was also thinking going into the draft that they’d probably take Walker at 2 and some guys in the 2nd and 3rd round who were solid players but not game changers. Getting Hutch and Williams really changed the outlook of the team for me not only next season (assuming that Williams makes an early impact) but long term.
Look at their core…
Ragnow and Sewell
Swift
Hockenson
St. Brown, Williams
Hutchinson
That’s a really nice group of building blocks then you have guys like Chark and Okwara (assuming health), Decker, Williams, Reynolds, solid looking group of young DT’s, Oruwariye, Okudah still has that potential, Walker etc.
Still some roster construction needed on the back 7 and the QB is too big of a question mark although he has proven to play well with a great supporting cast but you can already see the makings of a roster that’s going to be a problem for opponents and possibly in short order especially if Goff can rediscover some of that early career magic.
To answer Mel’s question…
YUP!!!
Not sure why you deleted it, it was spot on!
I wanted to see it,
I wish we could go back in time, before the draft, and have a poll asking…
“Would you rather have picks 2, 32, and 34”
or
“Would you rather have picks 2, 12, and 46”
I’d choose 2, 12, and 46 every day of the week and twice on Sundays.
Instead of Hutchinson, Cine, and Watson, we end up with Hutchinson, Williams, and Paschal.
Again, I like our haul better.
If your worried about not getting that Safety, we could have took Brisker instead of Paschal. Brisker was taken 2 picks after we took Paschal. So a high end Safety was still available and Holmes decided to go the DL route instead.
That would be more accurate and the answer is still yes. The key to the trade was getting back No. 46 overall.
Absolutely, i agree that 66 is part of the whole picture, it just seems that a lot of the complaints are based on the combo of players we could have had with our first 3 picks. So thats what i was highlighting.
And to add…
Would folks rather have Hutchinson, Cine, and Watson.
or
Hutchinson, Williams, and Brisker.
Because we could have had Brisker, Holmes just decided to go DL instead.
Wonder what Kiper had to say, if anything, about the Saints trade:
Austin Gayle
@PFF_AustinGayle
· 1h
The New Orleans Saints essentially traded picks No. 98, No. 101, No. 120, a 2023 first-rounder and a 2024 second-rounder for Chris Olave.