Right, because we’re all totally deferential to Cowherd and Florio.
5 Likes
Well those guys are idiots. Implied in the statement I made was “if they had the same knowledge, integrity, opinions, ability to parse out info and make it understandable, and did the same amount of research as her.” Basically, if Mina Kimes herself was a 50 year old man. Not some boneheaded idiot.
She’s wrong, everybody’s wrong, but she’s not a take artist for clicks, which is why I respect her (though that’s an admittedly low bar).
2 Likes
Well all you have to do is look at the leagues top five offenses according to most every talking head
Miami led by Tua Tagovailoa
49ers led by Brock Purdy
Lions led by Ben Johnson
Buffalo led by Josh Allen
Dallas led by Dak Prescott
4 Likes
Heh, I think a good 90%+ would say 49ers offense led by Shanahan instead of Purdy, and at least 80%+ would say Miami offense led by McDaniel instead of Tua. But I get your point (and I agree with Buffalo and Dallas).
1 Like
I don’t think Cowherd is an idiot and he’s actually pretty well plugged in with some NFL decision makers. However he understands the modern media landscape so he’ll say things he likely doesn’t even believe to drive engagement.
3 Likes
This is a brilliant piece of work. I definitely enjoyed reading it. Pat McAfee pointed out a few weeks ago that many “stat nerds” who have never played sports do not believe in momentum, because it can’t be quantified.
2 Likes
The flip side of this is Bradshaw, Matt Millen, Dan Dierdorf, Joe Theisman, Urban Meyer, Matt Leinart, Brady Quinn, Sean Payton, Drew Brees, Jimmy Johnson, Trent Green, Chris Simms, Jason Witten, on and on and on, who all understand the culture of team sports quite well, but still make for subpar analysts.
I understand that there’s a cadre of analysts who can be qualified as football hipsters, but personally, I still prefer them to the cliche-spewing, back-slapping, grammatically-challenged former players…
…for the most part, because I also understand that there’s a small group of analysts - Greg Olsen, Whitworth, Sherm, formerly Tony Romo, hopefully Tom Brady and Jason Kelce - who offer the best of both worlds. But they are very few and far between imo.
I think you misunderstood, i dont listen to seahawk fans… has nothing to do with her having a fandom
Its also just a joke about my dislike of seattle teams being someone who is surrounded by them and vocalized that previously on this board.
1 Like
I would agree. But there are also guys like Chris Long who merge statistical analysis with the ability to explain the reality of locker rooms, culture, preparation and all of that. I think Mina is fine. I really like Ben. I like Steve P. if he even qualifies and I’m good with Sam the majority of the time. Barwell frustrates me in that he weaponizes data to attempt to prove absolutes in a nuanced world. Stephen Ruiz is just brutal IMO. So I don’t have a universal disapproval to that model of engagement. It’s just began to wear on me. Mostly bc A:) it’s static and B:) they beat those horses to death. And they come from the same angles to do so.
1 Like
Fair enough. I do agree that they seem to be working from something of a formula, but to their credit it’s generally a formula of their own design. And I think most of them truly believe in it, which I will take over others who simply farm engagement (like Cowherd).
That doesn’t mean I agree, and you’re right that it can get tedious af sometimes, but I think for the most part it’s genuine (not for all of them certainly). They just don’t know any other language to use. They can try, but as you say, they just don’t have the same experiences, and I suspect it would simply come off as disingenuous.
That said, I don’t think you have to have been a former athlete to understand culture, intangibles, etc… (which you mentioned). Certainly not at the highest levels. Hell in extremely rare cases, you can even find it in the workplace. And I don’t think anyone would deny that good leadership, whether it’s quantifiable or not, is absolutely key to success.
@Thats2 you are easily one of the best den members. Love ur takes. But I really don’t think this is a big deal. If Mina’s name was Charlie, worked for ESPN and thought Love was better than Goff my reaction would still be gifs and jokes about Charlie.
To me this is just offseason fluff and clickbait season.
That’s why I just joke around and don’t take any of this stuff seriously in June.
Anyways love ya bud.
2 Likes
I don’t think you have to be either. I do think that when you are in a team environment in which everything is clicking you have an appreciation for the sum is greater than the parts effect that can occur. I think most of us feel like it’s fairly hard to ignore that is happening in Allen Park. Huge swaths of the traditional media see it. And yet in this one niche there is a lot of Lions skepticism and it’s bc the hipsters have spent so much time with:
1:) the Lions are going to be in a tough spot if they pay Goff
2:) positional value in the draft
And some of them are so far up a creek with those two takes (in some cases it’s damn near their entire Lions take) that their only option is to push further down the rabbit hole.
3 Likes
I like Mina takes sometimes, but as with all analytics, I take it with a grain of salt.
She (and many many others), have pushed so hard that because the Rams failed + they have boy genius Sean McVay = Jared Goff must suck. It’s a conclusion that many of the analytic crowd has come to and many have continued to push. Now that the Lions have had success with Goff, the narrative for the crowd is, the Lions have found the real boy genius (Ben Johnson) and he can win with anyone, because he has done it with Jared Goff. Plug and play.
Don’t get me wrong, I love Ben Johnson, but I don’t dismiss Goff’s role either. The NFL analytic crowd (including Mina) can’t and won’t admit their analytical analysis of Goff may be wrong.
I don’t think there is nearly enough data to put Love ahead of Goff, but . . . it is possible that he could be, but it’s also possible that he’s way worst. So yes, I have been extremely critical of any and all analytical media that still won’t admit that they were wrong on Jared Goff (and this includes Mina), when many NFL people with a scouting background (BH) were right on Goff. Remember, we brought in Goff without any other option and after the dismal 1st season where we could barely field a team, we stuck with Goff . . . without any other option. And now, Goff has paid off in spades and the analytical crowd (including Mina) won’t admit they were wrong.
My critic of Mina has to do with her analysis of Goff, not because she’s a girl.
1 Like
Ill call him “Buddy Love”…short-lived character…
He is not close to Goff.
Buddy Love is not good.
1 Like
But that train of thought is along the same lines….you see no value in her because of her roots as a sports fan. Steve Marriucci grew up a Packers fan, so you saw no value in him as a coach and now as an analyst?? If so I’ve never seen you post such a thing on here 
It was a joke about me disliking seattle fans… nothing more, dont even have an actual stance on mina
Ok my apologies! 
um *ew !!!
Ben said that having Goff is critical to his playcalling style. Ben likes to be aggressive and sometimes takes a gamble on what the defense might be ready to do. If he’s right we make a splash play. But if he’s wrong it could be disastrous. He said Goff is able to quickly diagnose and get us out of those plays or skip the ball to a receiver and move on. He ties not to be a hero and risk a worse outcome. So knowing that allows him to take more risks.
5 Likes