First, what hes asking for is irrelevant because you are basically giving it to him on the tag. So you seem to agree that that is what he’s worth. Also, if you transition tag him you get nothing if he signs somewhere else.
I hate the idea of losing him, not only because of the production, but the type of player.
I like having toughness on both sides of the ball, and KG is exactly that.
If it overall helps the team…gotta do what you’ve gotta do, but I don’t have much faith in our current staff providing something of equal or greater value for the money. Jones is older. Amendola is old. The other Agnew, Cephus, and Hall are pretty good backups in a pinch.
Well, first off, you’re right about the transition tag, I thought we still got compensated, just not as well as as if we franchise tagged him. But $22 million and $17 million are not the same… And again, I don’t want to be tied financially long term to a WR in his 30s.
You are reaching still. In the end you are willing to pay him what you say you don’t want to pay him. The only difference is you want to piss him off and make him miss camp in the process. Your plan pays him what he wants and confirms in his mind that he’s worth it.
KG is 26 right now, will be 27 in a couple of weeks.
I don’t know where you think we’re going to be financially tied long-term to a WR in his 30’s if we sign him!?!
If we sign him before next season, he’ll play next year at 27/28. The following year at 28/29 and the next as 29/30.
Do you really think we’re not going to have an “out” after 3-4 years?
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Not to mention that most WR’s don’t hit their wall right at age 30. WR is a position that can be played at a high level into 32-33.
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I think another thing that matters is we literally have almost nothing money wise tied up at the position going into next year. That’s why I’m shocked this isn’t done.
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Yeah, if you don’t sign KG and build around him…who are you building around at the WR position?
It would be different if I felt like this was a strong, young group that we had players ready to step-up and take over at …but we literally have nothing…and I mean literally!
It drives me insane every time he types it.
99% of NFL deals 5 years or longer have than out after 3, some after 2 like Big V.
If the cap is going to be $175M (which I think it will be) and the franchise tag for a WR is going to be less than $16M, like Joel Corry suggests (and he knows his 
). Then it’s straight forward in my opinion, you franchise tag him and wait and see what happens in 2021. Just because you franchise him, doesn’t mean you can’t work out something in 2021.
Although I prefer the tag, I’d do a long term deal, I either do
- 6yr/60M Guaranteed/80M total in first 4yrs
5yr/50M Guaranteed/55M in first 3yrs
4yr/40M Guaranteed/50M in first 3yrs
3yr/35M Guaranteed/35M in first 2yrs
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We both know that the chances of franchising him and then signing him to a deal are not very high. It would be an outlier rather than the norm.
What are you arguing here?
That Kenny is better with Stafford? I don’t think anyone would argue that.
My point still stands. Especially when you look at Stafford’s performances this year sans Kenny.
I disagree, I think most players that get the franchise tag placed on them, get a long-term contract from that team, more often than they are traded. Jeff Backus and Cory Redding were both franchised and ended up signing long-term deals with the Lions. Avril was foolishly franchised as was Ziggy and we let both walk the next season.
You responded to my post …by trying to make the case that Kenny is Kenny without Stafford and that he has somehow proven to be a high level WR with out him , by posting stats he had in 2019 while Stafford was out and then multiplying his stats by 2 to create what a full season minus Stafford would look like based on an 8 game pace.
You did so …to offset my take that Kenny looks better than he really is …because he has Stafford . Which is false. Kenny does not resemble Kenny on a per game basis without Stafford
Kenny’s last 8 games with Stafford at QB under Bevell in his Offense (while also removing 1 outlier game) is …
52 targets , 35 receptions (67 % cmp when targeted) for 714 yards , a 102 yds per game avg, with 20.4 yds per reception and 5 TD’s
Without Stafford it’s
49 targets , 26 receptions (53% cmp when targeted) for 392 yards , a 47 yds per game avg with 15…0 yds per reception and 3 TD’s
The opportunities were near identical the results …not close . Kenny was average at best with out Stafford
We know Kenny gets very little separation, we know Kenny is not a burner , we know Kenny is not a great route runner …
Kenny gets to do what Kenny does because he has a QB that has an Elite Arm in Stafford, a QB that looks to push the ball downfield to him and that bypass’s surer , easier throws , a QB that is willing to fire it into the tight windows Kenny establishes on the regular because of what skills he lacks at WR…
This was a separate point you made in the response …Kenny is a weapon for Stafford I agree… but Kenny is not a weapon for all QB’s as Kenny requires an Elite QB Arm Talent to utilize his skill set
That fact you have to remove a “outlier” game proves your point is shit.
If you are even slightly intectually honest about having this discussion using the numbers you would remove the high and low data point from both samples.
Don’t forget to add in the variable of other options that went out the back half of 2019 either.
550 yards 4 touchdown with shit quarterbacks and dudes of the street at literally every other skill position
No it proves you had no argument to make and renders your entire counter argument as shit .
Removing 1 clear outlier from each was easy , as they were very clear outliers …
Had there been none, I would have used a different method but it was not necessary…
Hahahaha intellectually honest ? Removing 2 data points from an 8 data point sample would be removing %25 of the data points 
Claiming this above again broken down by 8 games is honest ?..Or an attempt to make shit cling ?
When 1 game of the 8 games represents 33% of the total accumulated yards and 25% of the TD production and his yards per reception in that 1 game is 166% greater than the avg number of the other 7 games …That is a CLEAR OUTLIER
I just want to be sure we are on the same page. You are telling me that if I look back at the list of franchise tagged players thru history…most of them were given contract extensions by the team that tagged them? So if I looked back at 2019, I’d see it. If I looked back at every year from 2018 and prior, I’d see that same pattern?
Yes, more definitely sign long-term extensions at some point than don’t. Trading KG, isn’t a bad option either, but it should be new GM making decision or Quinn next year (if he retains job).
Here’s a great starting point https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Franchise_tag
2019 - 3 signed long term, 3 traded
2018 - 2 signed long term, 1 traded, 2 let walk following year (Ziggy/Joyner)
2017 - 2 signed long term, 1 sat out (Bell), 2 signed with another team following year (Cousins/Johnson)
2016 - 6 signed long term, 1 rescinded (Norman), 2 eventually signed with another team (Cousins/Jeffrey)
2015 - 5 signed long term
So, from 2015-2019, out of 30 tags, 18 signed long term, 4 traded, 1 sat out, 1 rescinded, 6 signed with another team following franchise tag (3 if you don’t count Cousins twice).
“Signed long term” has to be by the team that tagged them, to fit what I was talking about. The Rams don’t get credit for a long term contract with Trumaine Johnson when he got that contract with the Jets - for instance. The same with Lamarcus Joyner, etc.
And to bring it back to Golladay and what I said even more specifically, look at the pattern of guys that signed a long term deal with the team that tagged them. Many of them are top of the market deals. When you place the franchise tag on a guy, you have just signaled to him that he’s worth that kind of money.
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Corrected my error in post above.
So, do you want Quinn to sign Golladay Long-term even if he might not be here? I’d rather have the GM next year make that decision. I don’t think there is going to be a difference in the type of contract that Golladay is looking for, whether it’s now, Jan/Feb or in 2021 after the tag.
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