That is my point… That role is designed to cover the league’s posterior, which means he or she is incentivized to not let players go back on into a game. People in these kinds of roles get penned in to bring hyper risk averse, because there’s only downside to saying yes, none to saying no.
Unlike the armchair MDs here, I’m not making any claim to know the medical details. The diagnosis could have been correct, it could be wrong. None of us have the details, and few (if any) of is have the training to know.
What I’m saying is that the risk asymmetry and interests of the parties involved don’t match up with the conspiracy theories here. The League would sacrifice the playing time of a thousand Tuas not to have this kind of bad PR, and the role of independent doctor was put in place to do just that.
What’s the supposed big payoff for the risk of intentionally misdiagnosing a player? A rando QB plays in a rando regular season game? That doesn’t seem like the sort of calculated money decision the League makes.
I can buy the idea of incompetence. I can buy the idea of the medical professionals knowing more than us and being correct with a diagnosis that seems hard for us to understand. I can’t buy a big conspiracy.
1 Like
I didn’t say the concussion did or didn’t happen, it’s obvious that it happened (the one Thursday night). I’m saying that there’s absolutely no way of knowing if the hit Thursday would or would not have been a concussion had he not sustained the head injury the Sunday before. Again, once you get one concussion, it’s easier to get a second one.
Here is the main issue with your version of the debate.
Tua was never even put into concussion protocol Sunday. The doctor signed off on the “its only a back issue” story the team wanted so that he would have the option of going back into the game. Putting him into the protocol would also have guaranteed he couldn’t play Thursday because its so hard to pass all of the tests by that time. There are doctors all over the league that fit your description. Clearly the guy who was assigned in Tua’s situation on Sunday does not.
No we are not doctors but we also are not stupid. We know what certain injuries look like. Noone needed a PHD to know that something was seriously wrong with Trey Lance’s leg. What happened to Tua on Sunday was all over the internet. We knew what we saw. What happened on Thursday confirmed what we already knew on Sunday. I will give you another example - Sterling Shepard on Monday Night Football. Stupid fans without PHDs that watch alot of football instantly knew it was an ACL. There is a chance that it wasn’t. But if they came back and said it was just a back strain, we’d be looking at the team doctor sideways. Everything we saw from Tua was all of the telltale signs of someone that “got their bell rung.” He got slammed on the back of his head. He got up “trying to shake the cobwebs out.” He then wobbled and collapsed, and was unable to stand under his own weight for a minute. He had the look of “what is going on” on his face…and he wasn’t reaching for his back (telltale sign of a back injury). Normally in the NFL that gets you pulled from the game and placed into concussion protocol, and you have a series of things that you need to prove to the doctors to be able to play again. He was never even put into the protocol, which tells you everything you need to know about how the situation was handled. This is not hindsight. We called it in real time and Thursday confirmed that stupid fans without PHDs were 100% correct and something shady happened on Sunday.
2 Likes
In effect that’s what they are I suppose
I view them as a spasm type thing as well
But why would they come?
Never had them before I went through all the health problems
The fingers get all messed up — very similar to what Tua did — comes out of nowhere
I brome down the timeline of Crosby’s back injury when the story broke…. and I agree with @TNutZz ……
I think Crosby may have injured his back in the offseason and then didn’t report it so that he would get paid his full salary.
If he didn’t hurt his back in the offseason…
then he showed up terribly out of shape with no excuse….
and also skipped mandatory mini-camp in a contract year….
with a new coaching staff/GM in place.
His actions were highly questionable with the available info…
3 Likes
You can believe what you like and I’ll read Crosby story from his perspective while realizing it’s his perspective and I don’t have all the info.
You can present like the lions are above it
But we all saw the Lions allow Stafford to return to the field with one arm to protect himself in a meaningless regular season game
That had the worst occurred , a sack or big hit to staffird , his career could’ve been forever changed. Sure Stafford made choice to go out there but that’s why team need to protect the player from themselves while the team also protects its investment
Lions have had strange medical situations before you totally rule the lions as so much better than the rest of the industry.
It’s brutal.
A non throwing shoulder injury doesn’t equal a brain injury. The Dolphins deserve all the criticism they are getting.
I have zero problem with that Lions staff letting Stafford play with a hurt shoulder
The closest thing with the Lions that compares to Tua is Best and the Lions were incredibly careful with him, making him stay in concussion protocols until he just retired
2 Likes
Yeah, you can put a shoulder back together, brain injuries are not even close to comparable.
3 Likes
Y’all skip where my point is
Stafford couldn’t protect himself
Meaningless game
Very reckless use of your greatest asset
But the pressure and pay and deal made Calvin play when he couldn’t practice
One arm
Not working had a defender got through and slammed Stafford like Tua arguably Stafford would have been more vulnerable with this me arm.
Same team they let him play for dim head coach with a broken back like it was worth it and lions had a chance
I’m not even saying it’s all true , but I do believe it’s complicated with varying factors from money , peer pressure , pride , toughness , or insecurity , opportunity of a lifetime , etc
That contribute to the issue
We saw lions staff tell Swift he had to be tougher. Now we hear them say he wants to play but they held him
Back.
There’s a decent book from the raiders doctor of the 70-80s who talked a lot on the conflicts and motivations for the position.
1 Like
He couldn’t protect himself because his non throwing shoulder was hurt? What was he going to do, use judo on a defender?
2 Likes
Nah
I was thinking one might use their arm to break a fall
Just curious why you think the same injury made him miss the rest of the season but let him play that one last play ?
Do you think he hurt himself worse on the last throw and that’s why he missed rest of the season since he was fine to go back in ?
Why not let him finish the season if two healthy shoulders aren’t needed at QB ? What changed between the play he was injured and the last throw vs the last throw and the next game ?
The injury was treated as though it was not one he should play through.
To me , you’re missing the point if that’s all you’re taking from the discussion
We don’t see players playing through Stafford’s injury often and the team IRd him for the rest of the season from the same injury , which had it been a concussion , could’ve been the same outcome ( iR for the rest of the season, though likely as an unseen brain injury , he’d have come back within weeks ) if you really want to compare how nfl treats these injuries.
Why does Thursdays incident confirm anything about Sunday’s incident?
I agree that he definitely suffered a head injury on Sunday, but that’s based on what we all witnessed on Sunday and has nothing to do with what happened on Thursday.
Thursday’s incident could have happened exactly as it did without Sunday’s incident even existing.
Which is why I believe the investigation into Sunday’s event will lead the league into saying they found nothing to suggest the Dolphins didn’t follow proper protocols, and as long as the league Doctor, the team Doctor, and Tua all have the same story it’s nearly impossible to prove otherwise.
It sounds like you might have some nerve damage if its the same hand and not both of them.
Per the Mayo Clinic…
What are the symptoms of nerve damage in the hand?
Damage to these nerves is typically associated with muscle weakness, painful cramps and uncontrollable muscle twitching.
If it’s all over your body, drink more Gatorade.
The point is, is anyone going to die or go into a vegetative state for the rest of their life from a shoulder injury?
If someone has a sore shoulder and says he can go back in the game, then what’s the worst that’s gonna happen? If someone has an apparent head injury and they say they can go back in the game, you don’t even give him that option.
Exactly.
And is why the league has “concussion protocols” that must be followed but doesn’t a special protocols for any other type of injury.
2 Likes
I think you could be being reckless to think a player with one arm couldn’t be hurt worse while playing having an unknown outcome of what that would actually be
Maybe further injury to shoulder
Maybe it’s injury to spine because the player doesn’t use that shoulder to break their fall
Maybe it’s any unknown outcome that could occur on football field while making it even more risky for the participant
So you assume it’s only risk to further injury to shoulder while I’m talking about the ability of the player to protect their full selves being hampered by one arm on an Injury that made him miss the rest of the reason.
The Tua injury PR situation is among the worst for dolphins as it’s not that Tua got hit so terribly hard , it’s that it seemed iMO to be like a regular football play that caused it bringing doubt to their handling of plsyer , with Tuas participation and every team mate co signing it
While it’s possible the single hit could be why Tua had reaction having not much to fo with last weeks hit.
I think that might be a bit of a stretch…but I do get your point. I think a better argument would be that he couldn’t use that arm to catch himself and possibly hit his head on the turf and getting a concussion. I think the chances are really low but it is possible I guess.
Interesting
I think it’s mainly happens in left hand
Started, I think when I had encephalitis (which was really bad — doctors thought I may end up a vegetable)
Massive fevers, they were cooling me down like crazy
I’m the midst of all that I told my wife I saw 7 planes of existence. Each deeper.
I still see that as real
Nerve damage from that?
Seems unlikely but what do I know
I guarantee you Gatorade is not the right prescription for my case 
1 Like