Wow, so a team that didn’t win a game until how far into the season had a QB who was trying to play not to lose. You get that the win rate for teams that turn the ball over the least is one of the biggest deciding factors, right up there with being the most talented. Because we weren’t the most talented, he played ball control.
2 Likes
In fairness to the intelligence of fans, I have an alternative position. Your point about the 10 or 20% of people at the extremes is valid but I feel that most fans were like me. I had no strong opinion about Goff. He had taken a team to a SB and had fallen out of favor with his coaches (whose system I think the league just figured out).
Then in his first 8 games he had 7 fumbles, 6 interceptions and only 8 TDs in a very conservative offense (and some nail-biter games where even his 4th down throwaways were consequential). So that’s what I didn’t like, his piss poor play, not some predetermined prejudice against whoever is QB.
Then his last 6 games, he goes 11 TDs v. 2picks and 2 fumbles and we win half those games. So, I’m back to 50/50 on the guy. Don’t hate em, don’t love 'em. This year is his tiebreaker for me.
3 Likes
All we did was install Dan as the playcaller, bring back Decker and add Josh Reynolds to the mix. It should give people hope. But…some have been clear they don’t want hope if it means keeping Goff.
1 Like
Cooper Kupp in 2020 10.6 ypc
Cooper Kupp in 2021 13.4 ypc
Kupp set a record with yac last season with 861.
I’m sure it’s just meaningless.
2 Likes
I agree 100 my sleep deprived brother.
I also wonder what the salary cap implications are of drafting a qb this year or last for a team that was obviously not a contender (although improving chances next season). If I am a GM and I have a team that is obviously in need of a major overhaul, one of which may be QB. I get myself a serviceable qb, begin the process of surrounding him with quality players and give him a shot to prove himself.
Then, if it appears he is not the answer by year 3-4 of overhaul (next years draft for us), I go get my QB. That gives the team FIVE years of protected cap money for a QB three years into the overhaul. Now, you need to have confidence in your ability to go get the right qb but the amount of cap space saved over the upcoming five year span is exponential and provides unbelievable flexibility to add support players.
End result: Super Bowl in 2024 or 25.
This may also explain why they saved that draft capital from next year and didnt do anything with it this year as next years qb class is night and day better than this year. Where one qb went in the first three rounds, next year 3 qbs could go in the first ten picks of the first round.
1 Like
Yeah, but see, that kinda talk is frazy. I want a good team. 11 years of Stafford proved that SB-cable QB play won’t win you shit if there’s no ground game and no defense IMHO. So, Goff is just one piece.
In fact, we should think of it in terms of Passing Game, Ground Game, Defense, Special Teams. You gotta be top half of the league in 3 out of 4 to have a shot.
Check the stats, we haven’t been top half in 3/4 since the last time we won a playoff game. QB is like 1/6th of team success. Yes, great ones cover a lot of weaknesses but not against top competition.
Brady and Rodgers and Mahommes have a lost SB or shots at SB because someone else had a better D, OL, or ground game than them (not a better QB).
2 Likes
Except when there absolutely was, but JG CHOSE the easier, higher percentage, lower risk option. There were plenty of times that happened, guy was open, he was just scared to cut it loose and instead took the easy completion for less yards. Hey, I’m not a huge fan of INT’s, so Goff does protect us from mistakes most of the time. But the very risk averse don’t win SB’s and the Rams apparently decided to change that. It worked. It wasn’t due to OBJ. It was due to Stafford taking the longer shots to open WR’s and JG doesn’t like to do that. I do recognize he got better with the tweaked play calling and when Reynolds came aboard. But the overall result was still worst in the NFL in air yards per pass and sorry but that is a damning stat. It shows you are playing scared and JG certainly was.
There is a TON of truth to this, and it is my truth as well. I am not basing this off of the fact that we lost, or that he wasn’t successful, it’s HOW he was unsuccessful…and how he showed up when the chips were down.
It’s how quick he is to check down, how little risk he is willing to take, how he fumbles for no reason, how he threw the ball away on 4th down (no possible advantage to the team).
I think Goff will rip some teams apart this year. I think he’s a great QB when things are going well. I DO think he can face adversity, in terms of not giving up in a game…however…in the moment to moment. Goff panics and surrenders within plays. He does a great job of having a short memory after his mistakes, where one doesn’t necessarily lead to another…BUT…the needless fumbles where nothing was forced, the passes out of bounds, the energy of surrendering…it’s not cerebrally deciding to “live for another play,” it’s panicking in a “man whoop a man” situation. Goff is TERRIBLE at that sort of toughness.
He DID get better at stepping up in the pocket. That’s cerebral.
He DID do better when WRs started running the proper routes.
He DID do better when we got an OC that was less predictable.
ALSO…he DID fold up like a little girl damn near every time he was physically challenged.
He DID do horrible, when pressured (all do worse, I am aware…but he was a different human, when pressured). I’m not talking about w/l like with Matt. Matt’s energy was "■■■■ you, you’re not getting this ball from me, and he’d whip it down field and make a mistake…The WAY he does it is totally different.
Guys will like Goff.
Guys will like Stafford.
Guys will try hard to win for Goff.
Guys will admire Matt’s heart and look to him as a leader…totally different energy.
We’ll go to war with you/for you.
vs
We’re going to war, and we will protect you, little buddy.
one of them will impact the team more than others.
We WILL win WITH Goff. He is a B/B+ NFL QB. He is a D/D+, when pressured. Terrible
He could rip through the regular season and win 12 games for us, and rightfully, fans would be excited…then everyone is confused when we get knocked out of the playoffs…that’s because there is adversity in the playoffs. Goff has very single tool he needs to succeed…mentally, he’s just not a warrior.
He’s 2/3 down the warrior scale. Tom Brady is at the top, and Joey Harrington is at the bottom…
PURE WARRIOR
Tom Brady
Josh Allen
*
*
*
*bunch of other guys
*
*
*
*Goff
*
*
*Joey Harrington
TOTAL GIRLSCOUT
1 Like
Here’s something I noticed late in the season that gave me some hope. Goff was starting to step up in the pocket and step into throws. He threw downfield much more when MC/DC took over. That was a positive sign because early in the season, Goff wasn’t stepping up in the pocket, instead he was trying to escape out the back of pocket, being as slow as he is, that quickly resulted in sack/fumbles and horrible decisions, including throwing it out of bounds twice on 4th down. His pocket presence improved late in the season, which was encouraging. Perhaps just better coaching, or he trusted his O-line more.
With a solid O-line, a good rushing attack and a good TE. We don’t need Goff to be Dan Marino, we need a good decision maker and someone who doesn’t shoot the offense in the foot. And now we added Chark and J-Mo. This in theory should be a perfect situation for any QB to excel in. Only time will tell.
2 Likes
Is Talib actually Brad Holmes!? All of those things happened. Even nailed the trade up.
4 Likes
That is correct.
I’d love to think you’re right as I’m more or less in the same boat as you. But what I see in forums and chats and comment sections doesn’t bear out that we’re in the majority
That’s excellent vision on his behalf. I hope this isn’t a ruse, there is so much of it out there.
I believe in all of this. I bleive his decision making will improve as he feels less threatened. He’s gonna do way better. IMO, the fumbles were borne of being in the energy of a wussy, not of mistakes. Mistakes often create the adversity, but his response to adversity is bad. Stepping into the pocket and trusting will help, as he feels safer, but I’d love it if his feelings didn’t run him.
If he was a boxer, he’d never get out of the first round. A man with comparable strength and talent would beat him every time because of his mindset.
We will help him to feel safe, and redefine what “under duress” means, but when he feels adversity in the form of physical confrontation he does not respond well.
Aqib Talib: “If you could find a way to add (Jameson Williams) on the outside and let Amon-Ra St. Brown work inside, with Hockenson, with Swift, with this O-line, with the way Jared Goff has been playing lately, this could be a dangerous offense. This could be a dangerous team.”
[6:40 PM · Jan 2, 2022](https://twitter.com/ChrisBurkeNFL/status/1477786961565921281)·TweetDeck
3 Likes
Does Talib have the lottery numbers for next weekend!?
2 Likes
I could care less about him throwing it out of bounds, I’ve said before I would have thrown it at the staff because his WR corps was so pitiful. I just laugh when people make these comments like, “not being a warrior”, because if he wasn’t one he would have told them to fuck off with the team that he was handed.
I’m sorry but I think your entire take of warrior and with/for you vs protect you little buddy, pfff, BS. Making these type of sweeping observations after 1 season with this bull shit team and this staff that took over the OC position half way thru the season apparently has given you all you need to know to perform the eulogy? Not a buyer.
3 Likes
I tend to agree.
In general, people tend to underestimate the competitiveness of the “cool as a cucumber” types. It’s the same sort of bias that people held against Caldwell. If you’re not overreacting, yelling, screaming, and being dramatic, you must not care.
Last year was an abominably bad situation. New offense. Bad scheme (apparently). One of the worst receiving corps in the NFL preseason, trotting out practice squad receivers once the season got going. Guys not running the correct routes (allegedly).
I just have a hard time passing judgement on Goff from that, especially given the improvement seen when the situation went from all-time-worst-flaming-garbage-barge to merely not very good with the addition of Reynolds, change in playcallers, and stabilization of the OL.
3 Likes
Talib and Simms seem to dance to the same beat that our GM and HC do.
1 Like